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Pathfinder 1E Half Red, Half Black Dragon? O_o

Lwaxy

Cute but dangerous
Oh am I glad we did away with color/alignment stereotypes of dragons in most of our campaigns. It tends to lead to some very funny color combinations (my fav is our red-and-gold dotted, RIP) but makes for great moments. Especially when the PCs still held the stereotypes in mind ;)

I usually dice it out how the personality of the offspring will be, and what their exact colors, resistances or breath weapons are. So our recent lawful good black dragon (with some white patches, but she insists you can hardly see them) paladin female was a bit put off by her lawful evil offspring, thanks to dad's influence.

But I'm known for crazy lol
 

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Lwaxy

Cute but dangerous
I actually found out that in PF there are legit rules for crossbreeding. Also, a while back ago they made a Dragon Magazine with an actual color wheel of all the different combos. Anyone have any idea what issue it might be in? Because that is something I would love to read up on!

They discuss yellow, orange an purple in #65
 


Ramaster

Adventurer
Lets say a black dragon and a white dragon mate.

There is a 40% chance that any given egg would be a black dragon.

Another 40% chance that it is a white dragon.

The remaining 10% of the eggs are two-headed dragons. One white head, one black head and as for the body... well, I could be zebra-like, or all black, or all white, or even gray. I would go with a zebra-like pattern, though.

It might be taboo on their society since they could count it as blasphemy (their goddess is a multy-headed dragon, after all).
 


MarkB

Legend
The remaining 10% of the eggs are two-headed dragons. One white head, one black head and as for the body... well, I could be zebra-like, or all black, or all white, or even gray. I would go with a zebra-like pattern, though.

Hmm, how about if the black and white markings take the shape of Draconic runes, spelling out some doom-laden prophecy. The tricky part is, it reads totally differently depending upon whether you think the markings are black on white, or white on black.
 

Nigh Invulnerable

First Post
Yes, but then you'd also expect it to have no breath weapon, as the fire and cold would cancel each other out.

But, really, there's no reason to think that powers, immunities, and such would stack directly, any more than you figure the child has all the hit dice of each of the parents added together.


But but but....Lamarck wasn't correct? *Reality is shattered*

Seriously though, I haven't given this much thought, but kind of ran with the idea that dragons of one color deliberately only mate with others of their color at this point to produce more of their type. They might mate with any number of other creatures, hence the Half-Dragon template, but for creating more dragons they only stick to their color. I find the idea that a single dragon actually produces any random color of egg interesting though.
 

Gfreak2x9

Explorer
Lets say a black dragon and a white dragon mate.

There is a 40% chance that any given egg would be a black dragon.

Another 40% chance that it is a white dragon.

The remaining 10% of the eggs are two-headed dragons. One white head, one black head and as for the body... well, I could be zebra-like, or all black, or all white, or even gray. I would go with a zebra-like pattern, though.

It might be taboo on their society since they could count it as blasphemy (their goddess is a multy-headed dragon, after all).

That seems very fitting and cool, definitely something I would like to try!

Does anyone have the stats for a two headed Dragon???
 
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Gfreak2x9

Explorer
They discuss yellow, orange an purple in #65


After looking through issue #65 of the old Dragon Magazine, I can see why the so called “Missing Dragons” never ended up in the current RPGs. First let me say that this is a fun read, and if you haven’t read it I’d advise checking it out. Here is a breif summary!

Yellow Dragon

These rare Dragons were believed to live on another continent than that of the Dragons of old school AD&D. They choose to lair near/on beaches (Or rarely salt flats where an ocean once existed ) where their signature sand-yellow scales can better blend into their environment. No information is given about their hoard but their breath weapon is explained in detail! They breathe a cone of sodium chloride at their victims which can blind, or kill the foe! They keep track of who has been blinded and who hasn’t in order to focus on those who have yet to be blinded. Green Dragons are shorter than Blue ones (at least in this Magazine they are) which leads scholars to believe that a yellow must be either about the same size as a Green or possibly even Shorter.

-LOOP HOLE! In pathfinder Rise of the Rune Lords book 4, in the Dragon section they speak of a fallen Gold Dragon who mated with Blue to create Green Dragons! So adding this to a PF would take some work.

This Dragon is pretty cool. I don’t think it’s the coolest I’ve read about but fighting a dragon on the beach seems like a fun idea! Having a quick swim after slaying the beast doesn’t sound so bad! Although I must say it chooses to lair in places where it could survive well enough and there is certainly enough food and water (assuming this dragon can drink salt water and use the salt for its breath weapon). Its alright but I must say I enjoy the story of the fallen Gold a little better than adding a Yellow.

Orange Dragons
These Dragons are the product of a Yellow and a Red. They are also believed to live on another continent than the more common chromatics. They prefer to lair near swamps, rivers, or lakes, though on occasion they have been known to dwell in cave systems near underground streams. Their signature orange color makes it very hard for them to hunt due to the fact that they cannot blend in to any natural environment. Again no information on their hoard is given however their breath weapons are pretty awesome! They spray a stream of liquid sodium that oxidizes rapidly covering the victim in a fire which burns in a similar fashion to napalm. The Dragon’s own oily saliva keeps it from igniting in its mouth, or oxidizing instantly. In short the victim has time to look at the liquid and freak out before he/she goes POOF! Adventurers often make the mistake of throwing water on the victim in an attempt to save them, however water mixed with liquid sodium creates a violent explosive reaction! The Dragons favored method of attack is flying over a body of water near the party and shooting the sodium stream down into it, causing a massive explosion in order to hurt multiple party members at once!

-I think that this dragon would end up dead pretty fast. I know its breath weapon is powerful but consider its color and habitat choices. This Dragon isn’t hiding from anybody, it even says so it the description! So any party looking to slay can find it rather easy, even in the dark. It also shares a favored home with the Black Dragons. This would cause major conflict when attempting to find a proper lair as both would compete for the same one. Since Orange Dragons are practically endangered should even one of them be killed at the hands of a rival Black it would have a major impact on the survival of their sub-species. Not to mention their possible underground lairs are practically suicide! They would have far too many predators wishing death upon them Dwarves, Drow, Duergar, and Mind Flayers just to name a few! I understand Dragons are apex predators but going near the Underdark isn’t safe for any D&D creature! All in all I see its major weakness being a lack of a proper place to grow strong or raise young without constant interference from outside forces.

Purple Dragons
These Dragons are rumored to be extremely powerful due to the fact that the smartest (Blue) and most powerful (Red) Chromatic Dragons interbred to make this powerful beast! They too are said to dwell on another continent...or perhaps they've just killed anyone who happened to see them! Purple Dragons always choose to make their lairs in deep underground cave systems free of any light sources. And yet AGAIN no info on their hoards! Their deep purple color helps them blend into the dark, when combined with their high level of intelligence they make for a truly terrifying foe when fought in darkness! Their breath weapon is a beam of energy that combines the lightning and fire of its parents into a shocking, and deadly attack. The Purple Dragons often use their breath weapons to blind their foes in the darkness, leaving them vulnerable to more attacks. According to the magazine this is the hybrid to fear most of all!

-These are half the reason why I said Orange would be dead! Clearly in a battle between Orange and Purple, Purple would come out victorious. Both of these Dragons dwell in underground cave systems and both need water. Eventually they would face each other and given the power and intelligence of the Purple I think Orange would be dead in a flat second. Purple has everything it needs to survive near or even with the Underdark, which makes this foe one that should be avoided!
 
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Ramaster

Adventurer
Two-headed should be a template.

First you choose a base dragon. Let's say, Adult Red.

Then you choose secondary dragon of the same age category, say Adult Black.

The statistics are those of the base dragon, with the following changes.

- The creature gets all the energy immunities and vulnerabilities of the secondary dragon. If both have immunity to the same damage type, they don’t stack. If you end up with both immunity AND vulnerability to the same energy, they cancel each other out and the creature ends up with resistance 10 to that type (20 if the creature is an Adult of older).

Example: Our two-headed has immunity to both fire and acid damage and vulnerability to cold. It keeps the paralysis and sleep immunity from the red, though the black has them too.

- The creature gets a second bite attack on a full attack that is equivalent to the attack of the secondary dragon as if it was of the same size and age category of the first one and using the base creature’s strength score.

Example: Adult Red's bite is a +25 for 2d8+15 and Adult Black's bite is +21 for 2d6+10, but that's because of their size and strength difference. Black's bite should be calculated as if the creature is huge size and has the STR score of the base creature, so it is also 2d8+15 with a +25 bonus to hit.

- The creature gets a second breath weapon appropriate to the type of the secondary dragon. They have separate recharge times and their damage is equal to a dragon of their respective size and age. The recharge time of both breath weapons is increased to the following dice, to reflect the fact that its internal organs have a harder time producing both substances. For example, if the original recharge time was 1d4, increase it to 1d6 (ignore this if both breath weapons deal the same damage type). If the breath weapon doesn't have a recharge time, it gains "recharge 1d4"

Example: Adult Red's breath weapon is a 50ft cone with a DC of 24 for 12d10 fire damage. It doesn't have a recharge time, so it gains 1d4. Adult Black's breath weapon is an 80 ft line with a DC of 22 and a damage of 12d6. It also gains Recharge, 1d4. All else remains unchanged.

- The creature can use both its breath weapons at the same time. The damage and save DC is equal to the highest damage either one of them and can be used on any area of effect. If both of them deal the same type of damage, increase its save dc by +2. If any breath weapon has any effect other than damage, all these effects stack. The recharge time of both weapons increases by two steps (so 1d4 goes to 1d8) after he uses them like this.

Example: The combined breath weapon can either affect a 50ft cone or an 80ft line. It has a save DC of 24 and deals 18d10 half fire, half acid damage with a recharge time of 1d6.

- The second head gives the creature a +4 bonus to its perception rolls and any additional special senses that the secondary dragon type has. Its bulkier upper body reduces its flight rank to the next lower, if any.

Example: Perception increases to +27, and the dragon doesn't get any other special senses from its Black heritage. Its fly speed decreases to... what's under poor? Very poor? gotta check that!

- The dragon doesn't get any of the special movement types or spell-like abilities of the secondary creature

Example: Self explanatory, keep everything from the base creature.

The CR is the same as the base creature +1 (+2 maybe?).

So the monster goes from 14 to 15... Is that fair or would it be better to go to 16? The breath weapon is quite deadly, but the monster has the same hit dice, HP and general defenses of a regular dragon, so I'm not sure about this.

Let me know what you think!
 
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