D&D 5E Halfling non-magical damage options in the first tier of play

l0lzero

First Post
A staff wielding monk halfling would be cool, you could snag PAM to get at-ops when creatures enter your reach later on as well. Plus, no need to buy armor, just pump dex and wis (items, asi's, whatever). Plus, having wis as a pump stat means your passive increases, which is totally appropriate for your guard type character as well. Grab the observant feat eventually, stuff like that. Plus, monks have a decent skill list, so you can grab some more niche skills from that and then grab a background that gives you the basic stuff (like soldier, for athletics and intimidation, which helps you cover exploration and social pillars).

Edit: Flavor wise, I feel like way of the open hand makes the most sense for a character like this, it's like battlemaster almost (and you can pick up martial adept as well, giving you some actual maneuvers and a superiority die).
 
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Greybeard_Ray

First Post
Well, if you want a midget-Sam Vimes/Wild Bill Hickock, try this:
Race: Lightfoot Halfling (+2 DEX, +1 CHA), all the other Halfling goodies...
Background: Urban Bounty Hunter
Pick 2 from Deception, Insight, Persuasion, and Stealth
Class: Rogue, Swashbuckler
Pick 4 from (Rogue List)
Expertise: Double Proficiency on 2 skills
DEX: 16/+3 CHA 14/+2
ASI/Feat: Dual Wielder (@ Level 4) Rapiers
Armor: Studded Leather (AC 16 with all bonuses)
Gives you, @ Level 4:
1 attack @ +5 Hit, 1d8+3, +2d6 SneakAttack (if no one else is next to you)
1 bonus action, +5 Hit, 1d8
Fancy Footwork (free "disengage" vs. THAT target)
Rakish Audacity: Initiative +5

So, +5 on DEX Skills and +4 on CHA Skills. And you are the annoying twerp down in the poor quarter showing all those low-lifes who the REAL Sheriff in town is.
 

mellored

Legend
Monk's are probably the worst class 1-4. Things change at 5, but they are squishy melee before then. After 5, stunned enemies don't hit back as much.

Dual wielding rouge 2/ranger 3 would probably be the best. Skilled, fast, and able to snag people with ensnaring shots.
 

l0lzero

First Post
Monk @ 1
Snag stout halfling
Array - 15 14 14 10 10 8 > 10 14 15 8 14 10 > 10 16 16 8 14 10
HP - 11
AC - 15
Attack - main at +5 for 1d8+3 (two-handed staff) and BAA at +5 for 1d4+3 (and the d4 grows with levels)

Edit: can't power-attack with GWM and quarterstaff, requires a heavy weapon, my bad

Honestly, if you have a good tank, the AC isn't particularly terrible to deal with, so you may wish to pick up pam at 4, then gwm, then start buffing dex, unless you're in a low-magic campaign, then buff dex and then wis, and then you'll have your choice of PAM or GWM (both are useful for this build) at 19. However, if you're not looking to progress beyond 10, and you don't care about the math, then grab PAM and GWM (or martial adept) with way of the open hand and just have fun doing weird crap like prone and push and power attack prone targets (actually, that's a solid setup there on big bads since you can prone anything as a open hand monk, grab martial adept, precise strike to make sure you hit (well, +1d6 to roll anyway), bust ki to prone, all the rest of your attacks (and allies' in melee who go before the creature) will be with advantage, and you can do this once per short rest with the superiority die) until they're paste on the ground. But you sacrifice ASIs to grab feats to set that up.

Yeah, I know monk's not super great, but a d8 HD is fine for the majority of campaigns, and plenty of monks have made it to higher levels, so in practical application I don't think he'll be too bad off going monk.

Also, ".. I'm not generally one who builds based on the math. I'm looking at a city watch type halfling, and it felt odd to be a rogue..." from the OP, so if he doesn't care about the math, and is just looking for a nifty concept, I think the monk could work well, since the staff even allows for a modicum of optimization (being able to at-op opponents when they enter reach, an option for bonus action attack, and if he really wanted to, he could use GWM with it if the party finds gauntlets or belt that buffs str that nobody else wants/needs since the staff is versatile, letting him get off some pretty good damage when he two-hands it for a d8+10+prone on an at-op because someone thought they'd just come attack him) down the road.

If I were making the character, he'd totally be a fighter rogue, one of my favorite combos (stupid easy to run, lots of options all the time, consistent damage round to round), but I'm sure he's considered that which is why he's asking for suggestions.

I think a monk town guard totally works too, story wise at least, since you don't have to have ever actually learned from a monastery, that's all fluff. Mechanically you know martial arts and how to defend yourself without armor; you come from a rural area that predominantly relies on livestock and agriculture, being such a ripe fruit for bandits to pluck, the people of the town have learned to wield their farming implements with deadly proficiency, your grandfather taught you how to take every-day items, and even your own body, and use these tools to fight off brigands and thieves. A staff wielding halfling monk totally makes sense for a peasant guard type character, and in the mid-tier can be quite effective in combat as well, while still having good versatility at the low levels. If you go way of the open hand, you're basically the peasant weapon battle master, and can even get some PAM/GWM cheese in there too, thanks to the versatile staff.

But yeah, to be effective at low, mid, and high level tiers in combat and out, fighter rogue is definitely the mechanically better choice, and fluff-wise; you're a crooked guard, you take bribes from the local thieves' guild to look the other way when a crate of wine or a barrel of produce come up missing, and you also get compensation for the information you can provide. Snag the criminal background, I like enforcer specialty for the build since you can then pick up side jobs collecting debts owed by drunk farmers that have bad gambling runs, and you're set. Just go with neutral alignment (you're not chaotic, you're not a monster, you just kind of don't really care about anyone other than you), maybe lawful neutral (there are laws that everyone ELSE is expected to follow, me? I am the law...) if you want to help yourself portray a more self-righteous kind of crooked cop.
 
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Yunru

Banned
Banned
Monk's are probably the worst class 1-4. Things change at 5, but they are squishy melee before then. After 5, stunned enemies don't hit back as much.

Dual wielding rouge 2/ranger 3 would probably be the best. Skilled, fast, and able to snag people with ensnaring shots.
Human Monks, however, are the most powerful beast you'll encounter at level 1, provided they took the Mobile feat.
 

mellored

Legend
Human Monks, however, are the most powerful beast you'll encounter at level 1, provided they took the Mobile feat.
How are they any better than a human 2 - weapon fighter with mobility and more AC and HP?
Or a 2 - weapon rogue who has mobility plus skills?
Or a dragon sorcerer with mobility, booming blade and a few spells?

I could see an argument about being better that a level 1 ranger.
 

Greybeard_Ray

First Post
Please don't argue about this.
1. Everyone has opinions.
2. Statistics are just a way to 'formalize' ones opinions.
3. One can base statistics on any number of "OPINION-BASED" 'important' base ASSUMPTIONS/GIVENS.
4. See #1
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
Please don't argue about this.
1. Everyone has opinions.
2. Statistics are just a way to 'formalize' ones opinions.
3. One can base statistics on any number of "OPINION-BASED" 'important' base ASSUMPTIONS/GIVENS.
4. See #1
Nope, there's opinion and then there's fact. My opinion is that the Monk is a beast. Statistical fact is that it's not greater than the other options.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

How are they any better than a human 2 - weapon fighter with mobility and more AC and HP?
Or a 2 - weapon rogue who has mobility plus skills?
Or a dragon sorcerer with mobility, booming blade and a few spells?

I could see an argument about being better that a level 1 ranger.


Level 1 monks are indeed a bit squishy. But same is true for most characters. Level 2 gives ki and dodge as bonus action and staff + fist is not the worst damage.
A halfling can have 16 dex and 14 or 15 wisdom and 15 or even 16 con. AC 15 does not sound too great but it is ok. A rogue is not better armored and has no more hp. Cunning action helps so do ki points. And how does the 2 weapon fighter have better AC? A human monk can have 16 AC. That is a lot.
 
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nexalis

Numinous Hierophant
Dual-wielder Rogue 1 / Ranger [Hunter] 3 with two shortswords has a sustainable DPR of 21.98000 at level 4 (using the AC assumptions from the old "King of DPR" thread). This number includes 1d6 Sneak Attack once per turn, 1d8 Colossus Slayer once per turn, and 1d6 Hunter's Mark, once per hit.

I like to combine my hobby with my vocation, so I actually wrote a computer program that analyzed the over 1 million ways that the rogue and ranger classes can be combined from levels 1 through 20 to produce a dual wielding build, ranked them at each level based on DPR, and added up the rankings for all levels to come up with an overall ranking. Ranger 5 / Rogue 15 came out on top in terms of the highest sustainable DPR across all levels of play, while Rogue 1 / Ranger 5 / Rogue 14 was a close second.

Of course, this is just one data point, since DPR is not the only consideration when constructing a character. The lack of Cunning Action, for instance, means that such a character is much more easily locked down in melee, which can be dangerous given his/her relatively low AC and HP. Rogue 2 / Ranger 5 / Rogue 13 may be a safer way to go, or even Rogue 3 / Ranger 5 / Rogue 12 for Fancy Footwork, since Cunning Action Disengage forces you to give up your second attack.
 
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