Healer's Lore and Powers granting regeneration

[mostholy2]

The Cleric Ability Healer's Lore allows a cleric to add his WIS mod. to the number of hitpoints healed when using a Healing keyword Power.

However, when combined with Divine Power (lvl 9, daily with Healing keyword), does the WIS modifier affect the healing granted by the regeneration effect every round (ie. give regeneration 5+WIS)? Or does it apply the WIS bonus only once?

The description of Regeneration (PHB, pg. 293) clearly states that Regeneration is a form of healing, thus should be affected by the Healer's Lore ability. However, I think that regeneration 5 vs. regeneration 9 (for WIS +4) is a huge difference in the power of that ability. Particularly as the regeneration lasts until the end of the combat.

Any thoughts?

 

[Mengu]

Yes you do get to add Healer's Lore to regeneration granted by a class power, for the reasons you already seem to know.

It is debatable whether you get the bonus or not on feat powers such as Melora's Tide. I have ruled no for my game, since it's a feat power and not a class power. Some disagree.

 

[Nifft]

The way I play it is:
- You get immediate healing equal to your Wisdom bonus when you first use the power (this is Healer's Lore); and
- You get unmodified regeneration.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stormtalon]

Yes you do get to add Healer's Lore to regeneration granted by a class power, for the reasons you already seem to know.

It is debatable whether you get the bonus or not on feat powers such as Melora's Tide. I have ruled no for my game, since it's a feat power and not a class power. Some disagree.

My major quibble with your ruling is that while it's a Feat-based power, it's thru a feat which is only accessible through the class feature Channel Divinity. For me, all that really matters is that it's 1) a power used by the cleric and 2) has the Healing keyword. Thus, in my games, for instance, any power a cleric gets from any source will benefit, as long as it has the healing keyword (such as a cleric multi-classed into fighter to get the Boundless Endurance daily would get their Healer's Lore on the self-regeneration from it).

 

[Mengu]

My major quibble with your ruling is that while it's a Feat-based power, it's thru a feat which is only accessible through the class feature Channel Divinity. For me, all that really matters is that it's 1) a power used by the cleric and 2) has the Healing keyword. Thus, in my games, for instance, any power a cleric gets from any source will benefit, as long as it has the healing keyword (such as a cleric multi-classed into fighter to get the Boundless Endurance daily would get their Healer's Lore on the self-regeneration from it).

So basically you're ignoring the word "cleric" in front of power. I think they would have used wording similar to Symbol of Life, if that was their intent. As it stands, I'm pretty sure the multiclassd Cleric in your example is not supposed to get bonus HP's from Boundless Endurance. And as I said earlier, Melora's Tide is debatable. I can understand your PoV considering Channel Divinity as the Cleric Power.

As far as feats go, Melora's Tide is pretty powerful as is, I didn't want to make it any more so, which probably influences my more literal interpretation of "feat powers are not class powers."

 

[DM_Blake]

If your WIS gives your healing spells +5 HP, then the entire spell should get +5 HP.

Granting +5 HP to every round of a regeneration-over-time ability would be very overpowered.

There are different ways to do this.

One is to apply it as a big boost at the beginning. First round of regeneration gets the full bonus, the rest of the rounds get no bonus at all. This is the most powerful way to do it - frontloading all the bonus gives a big hit when it's needed the most (usually healers cast this kind of stuff after their companions take significant damage, not before).

Another is to divide the bonus equally across the rounds. So if you give +5 HP and the regeneration lasts 5 rounds, you would give +1 HP per round. If it's not evenly divisible, say +5 HP over 7 rounds, either spread it out (+1 HP on round 1, 2, 4, 5, 7) or just go +1 per round until the bonus runs out and +0 per round after that until the regeneration ends.

If the regeneration lasts until the end of the combat, there is no way to accurately predict how many rounds are left, so it might be easier to just give the entire bonus up front (making it fairly powerful). Alternatively, give +1 HP per round until the bonus runs out and, if the fight ends while there is still a bonus, you might just give the rest of the bonus at the end of the fight (the regeneration ends with a bang) or you might not - your player just has to accept that he can get the entire bonus, but only if the fight lasts long enough.

 

[nittanytbone]

According to cust serv, both Healer's Lore & Beacon of Hope stack on Melora's Tide until the end of the encounter, adding to the regen every round.

I'd think that if it works for Melora's Tide, it also works for Divine Power.

But, most STR clerics are unlikely to have very high WIS and are also unlikely to take Beacon of Hope so I don't see it being a huge issue. If the melee cleric in question has pumped STR & WIS, then there are other stats that will be hurting (DEX & CON to qualify for weapon feats, for the first part!).

 

[Stormtalon]

So basically you're ignoring the word "cleric" in front of power. I think they would have used wording similar to Symbol of Life, if that was their intent. As it stands, I'm pretty sure the multiclassd Cleric in your example is not supposed to get bonus HP's from Boundless Endurance. And as I said earlier, Melora's Tide is debatable. I can understand your PoV considering Channel Divinity as the Cleric Power.

Ahh, ok, it does specify Cleric power then? Sorry, books not handy here at work (and Rules Compendium firewalled out). I always default to least restrictive possible rulings based on the abilities as I remember them (it's easiest in a discussion setting to then agree to more restrictive rulings once things get clarified), so Boundless Endurance best to not get the bonus. However, since Melora's Tide is simply another way to use the Channel Divinity power, that one should still get it.

As far as feats go, Melora's Tide is pretty powerful as is, I didn't want to make it any more so, which probably influences my more literal interpretation of "feat powers are not class powers."

Sadly, the cleric in the group I DM has yet to use it, I don't believe. Might need to remind her, as the Paladin has a bad habit of yo-yo-ing between being up and being ready to roll those death saves.

Dratted Dragonborn pallies and their "No, please, I want to be bloodied!" attitudes anyway....

 

[Jhaelen]

The way I play it is:
- You get immediate healing equal to your Wisdom bonus when you first use the power (this is Healer's Lore); and
- You get unmodified regeneration.

Seconded. That's basically how it worked in 3E with the Vigor spell line which granted fast healing.

 

[mostholy2]

Thanks for the responses. I think I'm going to go with adding the additional hps from healer's lore at the first instance of regeneration granted by the power. I feel that this is a fair way to allow the power to be affected by Healer's Lore without overpowering the power (which IMO changing the power from regen5 to regen9-10 would do).

This doesn't conflict with the wording of Healer's lore and still allows it to be subject to the cleric class ability.