D&D 5E Help and advice for 5e spellcaster

[Nevvur]

You're weaving a false narrative. A half-damage fireball isn't going to take down a pair of level 5+ fighters unless they're already severely injured, at which point you can just do what every other sorcerer without Careful Spell does - choose a different spell. Careful Spell makes friendly fire a more tactically viable option, not the preferred or default option as you seem to be suggesting. As for Circle of Death, the solution is obvious: don't select that spell. The smaller area of fireball makes it more suitable for a larger number of scenarios, and fireball cast as a 6th level spell does a lot more damage besides.

Ignoring all that, would it help you get past the Careful Spell discussion if I went back to edit my post and say mitigate instead of negate? My original point was that he ought to avoid AE damage centric builds. The mention of Evokers and metamagic was just an afterthought in case he did want to focus on that style of casting.

Back to druids, the bottom line is that he asked for the broadest range of spells available. A druid doesn't have the sheer number of spells to choose from as a wizard, or the damage potential of a sorcerer, but in terms of actual variety of effects (which includes healing), he's better than either of them, and CotL does spells better than CotM. There's nothing to argue.

 

[Psychman]

Another possible solution is Light Cleric, as suggested, but take the feat Ritual Caster (Wizard) as soon as possible. That would enable access to a wide range of Wizard utility spells without them using up those valuable prepared spell choices. As a variant human you could even take the feat at 1st level.

 

[neogod22]

You're weaving a false narrative. A half-damage fireball isn't going to take down a pair of level 5+ fighters unless they're already severely injured, at which point you can just do what every other sorcerer without Careful Spell does - choose a different spell. Careful Spell makes friendly fire a more tactically viable option, not the preferred or default option as you seem to be suggesting. As for Circle of Death, the solution is obvious: don't select that spell. The smaller area of fireball makes it more suitable for a larger number of scenarios, and fireball cast as a 6th level spell does a lot more damage besides.

Ignoring all that, would it help you get past the Careful Spell discussion if I went back to edit my post and say mitigate instead of negate? My original point was that he ought to avoid AE damage centric builds. The mention of Evokers and metamagic was just an afterthought in case he did want to focus on that style of casting.

Back to druids, the bottom line is that he asked for the broadest range of spells available. A druid doesn't have the sheer number of spells to choose from as a wizard, or the damage potential of a sorcerer, but in terms of actual variety of effects (which includes healing), he's better than either of them, and CotL does spells better than CotM. There's nothing to argue.

I like how you had to put your 2 cents in, then ask,why are you still talking about it. That was funny. If you don't want that part of the discussion to continue, then don't talk about it. Do you honestly think nonhealing spell casters care about anyone's HP besides their own when nuking the party? I've seen it happen multiple times, when casters just want to throw their spells out figuring, they'll be alright, or the cleric can heal them, and they take someone down, or make it possible for a monster to finish someone off. Or in one case when I was DMing, the sorcerer nuked the party and killed the NPC they were trying to protect, so don't try and say I'm spinning false narratives when you have no idea what you're talking about.

No one has the sheer number of spells wizards have, and if you read what I mentioned, but druids do have some pretty good damaging spells, and utility spells that wizards don't get, and they can heal. People under estimate druids, but when someone plays them right, they are pretty Bada$$. Again like I said the 1st time, if he wants to play a healer, be a cleric. That should be 1st choice, druid 2nd.

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[Nevvur]

I wanted to get in the last word because you're patently wrong and your analysis begged correction. Do you play in dysfunctional groups? I'm not asking to be condescending, it's an earnest question. My own experiences indicate that yes, spellcasters do care about their allies' HP when they include allies in AE. It's the first thing they look into before even considering the option. Friendly fire is a sound tactical decision when the projected damage you prevent by killing monsters is greater than the projected damage you cause your allies. The randomness of dice means they are especially cautious when selecting this tactic. It's only come up 4 times in my 3 years of DMing 5e, but each of those instances worked out overwhelmingly in the players' favor. If your groups are killing themselves and/or NPC allies, it's bad luck, players being a-holes, players with a poor grasp of tactics or math, or a combination of any of these. If I take a few minutes, I can probably come up with a few others, or you can save me the time and tell me yourself what's wrong with your groups.

I don't doubt your experiences, but neither do I think they represent the typical experience, and they're a far cry from what many groups actually strive for: to hone their team into a highly coordinated and lethal force. Let's not assume most groups are going to be unable to grow past the difficulties your groups have had with friendly fire. In some situations it is an acceptable option from a purely mechanical point of view, and Careful Spell makes it even more viable. How it's handled in character is another matter entirely.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Since you will be responsible for blasting, emergency healing, and AoE blasting, the obvious choices sounds like Light Cleric, Land Druid, and Lore Bard.

Personally, I would go with the Lore Bard, choosing healing and control spells with my bard spells known and using my Magical Secrets to expand my spell list to cherry pick AoE damage and area denial spells spells like fireball and conjure animals. I would then spend one of my feats to pick up ritual caster(wizard) to round out my utility spell selection.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

It really depends on what you want to do with your character. Remember that your spell slots are the limiting factor, so even if you're a class with access to all varieties of spells, you probably won't get to use them if you're saving spell slots for support and healing.
Your party sounds like it will have damage covered, so other than something like Fireball if you can get access to it, you're probably better off thinking of other capabilities.

I'd also recommend making sure that you have an effective at-will attack, whether that is a cantrip or weapon: you'll be short on spell slots, so want to be able to do something effective most of the time, when you won't be casting. I played a Wizard who was the primary healer in a Curse of Strahd game, and the majority of my combat rounds were probably spend casting Chill Touch.

If you choose to be a druid, Circle of the Moon is the only way to go. CotL is just terrible. Nothing says CotM is any less of a profient caster as the Land druids. All land druids really get is the extra spells thsst are automatically prepared. Land abilities are a joke.

I think you're missing a rather major ability of Land Druids here: Natural Recovery.

This is a big chunk of what makes Land Druids better casters than Moon Druids: They don't just get more spells prepared, they get to cast more spells as well.

 

[neogod22]

It really depends on what you want to do with your character. Remember that your spell slots are the limiting factor, so even if you're a class with access to all varieties of spells, you probably won't get to use them if you're saving spell slots for support and healing.
Your party sounds like it will have damage covered, so other than something like Fireball if you can get access to it, you're probably better off thinking of other capabilities.

I'd also recommend making sure that you have an effective at-will attack, whether that is a cantrip or weapon: you'll be short on spell slots, so want to be able to do something effective most of the time, when you won't be casting. I played a Wizard who was the primary healer in a Curse of Strahd game, and the majority of my combat rounds were probably spend casting Chill Touch.

I think you're missing a rather major ability of Land Druids here: Natural Recovery.

This is a big chunk of what makes Land Druids better casters than Moon Druids: They don't just get more spells prepared, they get to cast more spells as well.

No I'm not missing natural recovery, because like you said in your first paragraph, if you're saving your slots for healing, you won't use them in most cases which in most cases would make natural recovery useless. Even if he did use his slots, you once can use natural recovery once per day after a short rest and only get half your level in slots, and no spells past 5th. At high levels, it's kind of useful, if you're burning through slots, but the majority of the time it's only 1 or 2 slots depending on the levels you take back and usually not very useful.

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[neogod22]

Because AL lets you remake your characters as much as you want up to level 5, I actually played my druid as CotL from levels 1-4 because I wanted to play him as a healer. When I realized how much their abilities actually sucked compared to CotM in actual game play, I switched him before starting a game at level 5.

The problem with CotL is, the powers do not support it to be a better spell caster like CotM supports it at being a better shape-shifter. A lot of druid damaging spells especially at low level, are concentration, small ranged AOE, can be moved, and will last the entire combat. Which works in favor for CotL. The healing spells are limited, and neither circle provides any bonuses to healing like it does with life cleric, so as a healer, CotM is just as good as land. While CotL is supposed to focus on spell casting, it doesn't offer much that would be missed going the other way, whereas CotM offers a lot that will be missed going with CotL, especially if you make it to 18th level and am able to cast spells in your animal form, having a powerful animal that can take hits will be useful.

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[neogod22]

I wanted to get in the last word because you're patently wrong and your analysis begged correction. Do you play in dysfunctional groups? I'm not asking to be condescending, it's an earnest question. My own experiences indicate that yes, spellcasters do care about their allies' HP when they include allies in AE. It's the first thing they look into before even considering the option. Friendly fire is a sound tactical decision when the projected damage you prevent by killing monsters is greater than the projected damage you cause your allies. The randomness of dice means they are especially cautious when selecting this tactic. It's only come up 4 times in my 3 years of DMing 5e, but each of those instances worked out overwhelmingly in the players' favor. If your groups are killing themselves and/or NPC allies, it's bad luck, players being a-holes, players with a poor grasp of tactics or math, or a combination of any of these. If I take a few minutes, I can probably come up with a few others, or you can save me the time and tell me yourself what's wrong with your groups.

I don't doubt your experiences, but neither do I think they represent the typical experience, and they're a far cry from what many groups actually strive for: to hone their team into a highly coordinated and lethal force. Let's not assume most groups are going to be unable to grow past the difficulties your groups have had with friendly fire. In some situations it is an acceptable option from a purely mechanical point of view, and Careful Spell makes it even more viable. How it's handled in character is another matter entirely.

Of course you want to get the last word in, because people like like you, with weak egos can't accept the fact that they might not be right all the time and it burns you up. Everyone experiences the game differently. I don't care what you think is normal, or abnormal because the reality is, you're not important to me. So no I will not satisfy your curiosity and answer your question. But I will say, I have played with people who's name have been in every book that's come out so far. My name is in Tomb of Annihilation and will be in Xanthers guide, and probably every book that will come after.

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[Nevvur]

If I'm not important to you, why are you still carrying on? You clearly also want to have the last word, and you're talking about names in books like it gives you clout, so who has the weaker ego here?