Help me build an 11th level ranger (please)

[Herschel]

Also, Master of Arms is a great feat if you want to switch from ranged to melee. It's basically an expertise feat for ALL weapon attacks and lets you sheath and draw as a minor.

 

[jbear]

At the risk of being told off by Herschel I'm going to suggest an alternative concept ranger, although in my defence Mercurius did mention the word Hybrid in the Original Post. This is the build my wife switched to after growing bored with her Twin Striker ... err ... I mean Bow Ranger.

The Build is a Ranger/Shaman Hybrid. The Bow Ranger can quite often stand way back and nail things hard from as far away as possible. They don't have much to do with minor actions except Quarry. And quite often they can don't even need to take a move action.
This Ranger Shaman can still hit nearly just as hard, but swaps out a minimum of Striker Powers for Leader powers that use your Spirit to make the whole team hit harder. And to be honest I think sometimes it's just nice to take a break from 'Thumba Thumba Thumba' ... you're dead.

My wife's spirit companions are the restless spirits of her two younger brothers, whose death she feels responsible for. She has taken the Watcher Spirit OAtk power so when a creature provokes an OA from her spirit her other brother possesses the Sorceress and channels his ire through her arcane power. Alot of 'Puppet, do my bidding!' goes on and the the sorceress loves it. I don't know if you have any other ranged attackers in your group. If not you can swap the Hybrid Talent for the Bear Shaman OAtk power which does WIS dmg and gives surgeless healing, which is fairly cool too.

Oh I forgot to mention 1/encounter 2 target heal and Speak With Spirits power for out of combat goodness!

Something to chew on before you finalise your PC.

level 11
Elf, Ranger|Shaman, Keen Eagle: When you APoint you get a second spirit for a turn. You can shoot around corners, drawing line of sight from spirit and you get an encounter power that lets your allies score a critical hit from 16 -20 (They will love you). Sharpshooter is still a good option for you, but I thought I'd show another option for you here
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Fortitude
Companion Spirit (Hybrid): Watcher Spirit (Hybrid)
Hybrid Shaman: Hybrid Shaman Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Spirit's Power
Background: Elf - Wild Elf (+2 to Athletics)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 16, Dex 20, Int 11, Wis 20, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 15, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.


AC: 24 Fort: 22 Reflex: 23 Will: 22
HP: 78 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Dungeoneering +15, Nature +17, Athletics +13, Perception +17, Stealth +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Endurance +8, Heal +10, History +5, Insight +10, Intimidate +4, Religion +5, Streetwise +4, Thievery +10

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow)
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Bow)
Level 4: Bow Expertise
Level 6: Hybrid Talent: Use this to gain a melee range Spirit OAtk Power so you can be in the middle of combat even when you're not.
Level 8: Shadow Initiate: You can use Assassins implements (weapons they are proficient with). This means you can use your Bow as your implement, which avoids a WHOLE LOT of hassles with implement powers, switching from bow and Implement. Plus Stealth. Plus 2 Shrouds per combat. Sweet deal!
Level 10: Lethal Hunter
Level 11: Nimble Spirit: Call Spirit as a Free Action. This allows you to reposition your Spirit anywhere on the battlefield with a minor action to recall it and Free action to summon it back in the most annoying place possible. This gives you an awesome control element to play with if you use it wisely. For example, try and flank someone up against a wall with a Spirit Companion next to them or get past your Fighter in a 10' wide hall with your Companion next to them

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Claws of the Eagle: When you can't attack, let's say your blinded for example, you can give your attack to the strongest person on the team and if it hits the enemy Grants Combat Adv which everyone benefits from.
Hybrid encounter 1: Stormhawk's Fury: Vs Fort is the only bad thing about this one, (although you do have elven precision) but if it lands any creature next to your Spirit basically has Vulnerable 5 to any damage received. If you coordinate well with other PCs this can stack up alarmingly quickly.
Hybrid daily 1: Spirit of the Healing Flood: An AMAZING healing power to have up your sleeve. Gives everyone in the team a Get Out of Jail Free Card. And a Burst 5 attack ain't too shabby either.
Hybrid utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Hybrid encounter 3: Disruptive Strike
Hybrid daily 5: Spitting-Cobra Stance
Hybrid utility 6: Hearth Spirit: Surgeless Healing and now everyone is a Dwarf!
Hybrid encounter 7: Biting Volley
Hybrid daily 9: Attacks on the Run
Hybrid utility 10: Hunter's Thorn Trap

ITEMS
Shadow Dance Leather Armour +2: Wearing this your ranged attacks don't provoke OAs, Rebounding Greatbow +3, Raven Cloak +2, Bracers of Archery (heroic tier)

 

[Neonchameleon]

mneme, I'm intrigued by the option of being great at bow and good at a big weapon (probably great sword or even full blade or bastard sword). How would you recommend doing that? And would you recommend that over two short swords?

Hunter Ranger from Martial Power 2 - allows you to easily swap weapons and gives you a dex based at will that you can use as an at will - or on an opportunity attack. Oh, and opportunity attack protection. It means you can't take Battlefield Archer tho. I'd recommend a standard two handed axe and the axe expertise feat (costing you only one feat - or none if you go Weapon Master) - and there is a 4[W] attack you can use with it as a level 7 encounter power. (Only works on bloodied or prone targets, but they shouldn't be hard to find).

It's perfect for the Bow-and-backup-melee-weapon approach. You can go archer path (for battlefield archer) and still take the axe as a backup weapon (going Master at Arms rather than Bow/Axe Expertise) but won't get opportunity attacks with it.

Aegeri, do you recommend Battlefield Archer over Sharpshooter?

Unless you think you will be making opportunity attacks, it's stronger. Sharpshooter works well with a hawk or falcon companion - when someone attacks it you attack them. Battlefield archer is very good at turning the air black with arrows - three encounter interrupts, an AP every fight for an extra twin strike, and that AP gets an additional arrow for free.

Hmm... How riskily do you enjoy playing? Prime Shot/Prime Punisher can be awesome for a twin-striking Ranger. But involves provoking opportunity attacks.

Edit: If you want a simple archery ranger with some sword-swinging ability there's the Hunter from Essentials. Doesn't turn the air black with arrows, but does pin the enemy's feet to the ground with them or knock them off balance.

 

[aurance]

Yes, go away if you are too inbred to cheese to actually help the person with what they ask for. Sure, it's fine to point out why this or that may be hard to pull off, but then put in how it might be best to get what they want instead of what you think they should play. It's not badwrongfun to play a character that isn't on some op thread even though a few posters put forth that notion.

I thought he just gave a helpful suggestion. He's not holding a gun to the OP making him play whatever, you know. The only thing it does is give the OP another angle to look at. Besides, melee ranger with a few ranged powers isn't all that fundamentally different from ranged ranger with a few melee powers.

Viable, decent and fun doesn't have to be an exercise in trying to milk a single trick in to the gaudiest numbers possible. The game is set up to play as part of a party of individuals, most of whom never read an internet bulletin board about character building, and they have a lot of fun too.

I agree. But, eh, red herring.

I applaud someone who wants to build a ranger that doesn't just sit back and let everyone else get hit.

You... applaud him for wanting a ranger to have some melee powers instead of all ranged powers? Why? Odd thing to get jazzed about.

Also... "inbred?" Really?

 

[Herschel]

It wasn't even just a single post, it's posts in all the threads where someone asks for help building a certain type of character and it (the reply)happens to be by one of the few posters who always try to say 'badwrongfun, build what I think is the Char Op way'.

jbear's post is cool because he acknowledges it's a different take for variety on the standard class them of crunch-the-numbers thwoop, thwoop, thwoop while still offering a melee presense the OP seems to want.

 

[mneme]

You... applaud him for wanting a ranger to have some melee powers instead of all ranged powers? Why? Odd thing to get jazzed about.

Actually, it isn't, really. The classic bow ranger is really boring; You run away, twin strike, twin strike, twin strike some more, and throw out the occasional interrupt. Meanwhile, it's nice if the rest of your party is doing the same thing, or can get in the monster's face, because you aren't taking damage unless something manages to corner you.

The first deviation from this is the beastmaster archer -- sure, you're still basically doing twin strike all combat, but at least you've got a pet in there, handing out flanks, absorbing the occasional attack, and giving you something to do that isn't "reposition myself somewhere far away from the enemy--oh, and hide."

The other way to deviate (and still basically be ranged) is the hunter. You trade out some damage for very controlling, no save dailies (at least, past 5th level or so) and for having to occasionally step in and mix it up. Of course, you can play a beastmaster hunter too (particularly in paragon; take Sharpshooter and you won't miss Fading Strike as an OA).

 

[TwoSix]

Hybrid ranger/monk? Running up elephants seems like a psychic power to me.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Actually, it isn't, really. The classic bow ranger is really boring; You run away, twin strike, twin strike, twin strike some more, and throw out the occasional interrupt. Meanwhile, it's nice if the rest of your party is doing the same thing, or can get in the monster's face, because you aren't taking damage unless something manages to corner you.

The classic twin-strike ranger is a heroic tier creature. A Battlefield Archer ranger at level 11 has three encounter interrupts to use in a fight that probably won't go beyond four or five rounds. Then you give them the Called Shot feat once they hit Paragon - five damage pe shot is pretty big if you are getting an average of three shots per round (as you are with a Battlefield Archer due to the extra shots from the Action Point). And once you are into using Prime Shot (which at +1 to hit +5 damage is pretty effective) you're into deliberately provoking opportunity attacks.

And nothing that routinely and intentionally provokes opportunity attacks is boring to play. Nor is someone with a fistful of interrupts who needs to work out where to use them.

 

[Puggins]

Here's the bottom line, in my opinion:

You can build a ranger that will work extremely well in both melee and archery. A difference of +1 attack is significant over the long term, but will not be observed as impactful in most sessions.

The ranger, more than other classes, can get away with a starting 16 in an attack stat. The reason is simple: that attack stat will not contribute directly to damage in most of your attacks (since twin strike does not include +stat damage). Such a build will never win an optimization contest, but you'll do fine in play. Hell, you'll do more than fine. You're playing a ranger. Damage will be coming by in bucketloads at 11th level.

Here's a framework. Add to this and you'll do just fine.

Beginning -> Ending array:

14 -> 17 Str
18 -> 21 Dex
12 -> 13 Con
10 -> 11 Int
12 -> 13 Wis
08 -> 09 Cha

Feats:
Master at Arms
Superior Weapon: Greatbow
Weapon Focus: Bow
Weapon Focus: Light Blades
Lethal Hunter

Equipment:
Great Bow + 2 (any)
Twinned Short Swords +2 or 2 x Radiant Short Swords +2 (better but pricier)
Bracers of Archery

Powers:
Twin Strike
Stance, Minor Action or Immediate Attack Powers as possible across the board

Twin Strike with Bow:
Attack +17/+17, 1d10+6 x 2 + 2d8

Twin Strike with Short Sword:
Attack +16/+16, 1d6+6 x 2 + 2d8

Typical 11th level monster AC: 25

You'll be hitting on a 8+/9+ for very, very solid damage with just this barebones template. You'll do great.

 

[Mercurius]

So many options...the more I study the Ranger, the more confused I become. A few things have become (somewhat) clear, though:

***I would prefer to make a "Classic 4E" Ranger - not Essentials. I'm not sure exactly why; I think it is mainly because I've been DMing Classic 4E for a couple years and want to play a character with all the powers and such.
***Fighting Styles/Paragon Paths - I was tempted to go with Two-Blade but I'm thinking that it is unnecessary with Twin Strike, yes? So I can either go Hunter - Sharpshooter or Archer - Battlefield Archer. I'm veering a bit towards Sharpshooter, although mainly because I like Hunter slightly better than Archer.
***There are a few feats that seem like no-brainers: Master of Arms (why ever take Expertise again?), Superior Weapon (Greatbow), Weapon Focus (Bow), probably Weapon Focus (Light Blades). That gives me a couple to fiddle around with...I'm thinking Lethal Hunter, Paragon Defenses, maybe Toughness or Superior Will.
***When all is said and done, I can see why some say that using melee weapons ceases to make mechanical sense. Still, I'm envisioning a kind of "crazy Legolas" type. Imagine Legolas if his entire family and clan was slaughtered and he became a kind of accursed wanderer...Unaligned and a bit reckless. That's what I'm going for. So I can see charging into battle with two shortswords just for the fun of it, even if I won't be getting the nasty damage I'd be getting from a magical greatbow. So given all of the above, I'm still looking for ways to tweak the melee to make it worthwhile.

As a point of clarification, we roll ability scores - 4d6 x 6, roll two sets, take the best one - so I'm not faced with a strict array. You get pretty good results that way. I started with 18, 17, 15, 14, 11, 11, and boosted those up to 20 STR, 15 CON, 23 DEX, 12 INT, 18 WIS, 12 CHA.