Help me utilise Dominated

[Infiniti2000]

My change to dominate makes the condition LESS severe. The dominated character immediately makes an attack against an ally. However, when that character's regular turn comes around, THEY CHOOSE THEIR OWN ACTION. They're just dazed (save ends). The character still gets to attack an enemy, take second wind, run away, whatever.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't understand that part of it, I guess. Sorry for the confusion. Anyway, how does this affect a warden? He might never attack an ally in the normal rules, but your change doesn't allow that initial free save vs. the dominate. I guess though, not allowing the warden any benefit isn't much worse than not allowing other external saves to occur prior to the attack. I know in our games when someone is dominating, people pull out their "grant an ally a save" powers.

 

[keichiku]

First of all, sorry for poking in. If any this will be a honest mistake. I regularly DM a 4e group and love to push them to the wall. When I use the dominate condition I don't sugarcoat it, the charge to their allies through all their enemies or run for a TS and the end of a cliff. But when I choose who is affected I target the players, not the characters. Some playes don't handle well losing control of their characters and in my experience the players with defender suffer less from the situation. Maybe it has to be with the sadistic work of the role. It's my experience so please forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

[JohnnyO]

Personally, I like to use terrain effects with dominate. Its often times worth using a move action instead of an attack if you can separate the party and set up powerful combos.

For example, see if you can get a dominated player to jump off a ledge, or climb down into a pit (which happens to contain a gelatinous cube), or run behind enemy lines where they will be harried by the enemy next turn (and grant CA for running).

 

[OnlineDM]

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't understand that part of it, I guess. Sorry for the confusion. Anyway, how does this affect a warden? He might never attack an ally in the normal rules, but your change doesn't allow that initial free save vs. the dominate. I guess though, not allowing the warden any benefit isn't much worse than not allowing other external saves to occur prior to the attack. I know in our games when someone is dominating, people pull out their "grant an ally a save" powers.

It's still a "save ends" for me, so if someone gets an extra save from an ally or from being a warden, they can still shake it off. However, that extra attack from being dominated does still hit right away, which I'm totally okay with. After all, the dominator didn't deal any damage - the only effect of the attack was the domination. I have no problem with that working out to an immediate attack from the dominated character (which, keep in mind, could miss).

 

[NewJeffCT]

Personally, I like to use terrain effects with dominate. Its often times worth using a move action instead of an attack if you can separate the party and set up powerful combos.

For example, see if you can get a dominated player to jump off a ledge, or climb down into a pit (which happens to contain a gelatinous cube), or run behind enemy lines where they will be harried by the enemy next turn (and grant CA for running).

I believe if you try to get the Dominated party to do something like go over a ledge, they get a saving throw to resist the effect. However, I definitely agree with getting the dominated PC to move as far away from combat as possible.

 

[Infiniti2000]

However, that extra attack from being dominated does still hit right away, which I'm totally okay with. After all, the dominator didn't deal any damage - the only effect of the attack was the domination. I have no problem with that working out to an immediate attack from the dominated character (which, keep in mind, could miss).

Well, it's not just an attack, but an at-will power. Some of those have a lot of extra things. Let's say you make the warden do a Warden's Lunge combined with a charge. Now the other PC (if hit) is marked by the warden. Depending on the initiative order, that's a -2 penalty on attack rolls. Or, Weight of Earth where the target is slowed. Not only that, but the Warden is likely way out of position and would have provoked attacks from other creatures.

I think it's a big deal, so I urge caution.

 

[JohnnyO]

I believe if you try to get the Dominated party to do something like go over a ledge, they get a saving throw to resist the effect. However, I definitely agree with getting the dominated PC to move as far away from combat as possible.

Yup, asking them to jump off of a cliff will provoke a saving throw. But that is so boring. I really like using dominate in a memorable way. No one remembers getting hit a bunch by enemies and dropping, but they will remember things like:

1) Go stand on the trap door (which the enemy will open next turn)
2) Go lay down on the evil altar
3) Toss the magical artifact to the BBEG
4) Walk through the portal to the other realm
5) Activate the trap that will hurt your friends
6) Speak the magic words that summon a demon

The possibilities are endless! This is one of the few powers that can really add interesting storytelling to your game, don't waste it on a few boring melee basic attacks, even if they are painful.

 

[Ferghis]

Well, it's not just an attack, but an at-will power. Some of those have a lot of extra things. Let's say you make the warden do a Warden's Lunge combined with a charge. Now the other PC (if hit) is marked by the warden. Depending on the initiative order, that's a -2 penalty on attack rolls. Or, Weight of Earth where the target is slowed. Not only that, but the Warden is likely way out of position and would have provoked attacks from other creatures.

I think it's a big deal, so I urge caution.

RAW dominated might easily inflict a slowed condition, so that's not really a big deal. I'm not sure a dominated character can use additional free-action powers, such as the warden's marking power. Actually, I'm pretty sure they can't.

 

[Ryujin]

I'd go with the thief or the monk. Also, if it were at my table and I had a monster dominate a thief, I would totally allow the thief to sneak attack his allies, no matter what the rules say. Yay for Rule Zero!

If we're really talking Essentials Thief, and not Rogue, then using the limited resource of Backstabs isn't kosher. Remember; at-wills only. It's no fun for the players, if you deplete their powers.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

I believe if you try to get the Dominated party to do something like go over a ledge, they get a saving throw to resist the effect. However, I definitely agree with getting the dominated PC to move as far away from combat as possible.

I personally like to have dominated PCs run around the battlefield, drawing AOOs, and then falling prone (a free action) at the feet of an enemy at the end of the run.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar