Help with an Archer (How many people gonna ask this? ;))

[Bobbystopholes]

I'm joining a campaign that is at 17th level and allows a free +2 template on top of it. They asked for either an Arcane Magic user or an Archer Cannon. My buddy chose Wizard and I chose Archer. We also chose to be brothers and Half-Celestial (tough call over the Celestial Template, suggestions will be gladly taken for a template change, we like flavor).

Here are the creation rules: 32 point buy, DMG gold for 17th level (340,000gp I believe) We are Moon Elves and the setting is based in FR but almost any book will be allowed.

I don't have any books, I mainly play Living Greyhawk, so I only have the cores. This is where you guys come in

My initial trials have been:

Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 3/Deepwood Sniper 7 (5 attacks per round with Rapid Shot, spend most gold on weapons +4d6 sneak attack damage)

and

Rogue 10/Deepwood Sniper 7 (4 attacks per round with Rapid Shot, +5d6 sneak attack)

The extra d6 doesn't seem worth losing the extra attack.

The Feats I was thinking of taking are the normal:
Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow)
Improved Crit (Composite Longbow)
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Far Shot

With the Fighter Build, I have 3 other feats to chose, one being Weapon Spec (Composite Longbow).

Easy break down of questions:
1) Need a cool +2 Template (max) with good abilities (not evil)
2) Class suggestions for and Archer
3) Feat Suggestions for an Archer

Thanks in Advance for your help!

Bobby

 

[hong]

I'd go with the OotBI/DWS. Really though, it's hard to stuff things up when you're playing an archer.

 

[Rackhir]

Why exactly are you taking levels in Rogue? If it is for the sneak attack damage I would forget about it, until you hit epic Order of the Master of the Bow, you don't threaten an area with your bow.

If you are taking the rogue levels for evasion, that is probably well worthwhile in a epic level campaign.

However, if your DM is permitting ANYTHING, you would be foolish not to take levels in Peerless Archer. (from the FR book Silver Marches). Which is so full of munchkiny goodness that it should be banned in any serious campaign. It gets you stuff like Power Shot (basically Power attack for bows), threatening areas and other obscenely powerful skills. I would definitely drop any Rogue levels in favor of the Peerless Archer levels, since they will increase your lethality substantially. You might also want to bump the fighter levels up to 6 if that is the case, since you can't qualify before 5th level and 6th gets you an extra feat.

With regards to feats, remember that if you take more OoBI levels and have the Zen Archery feat, you get to add your Wis bonus at I think 6 or 7th level.

Multishot (which is a non-epic feat) from the ELH, is an absolute necessity if permitted, since in many respects it is almost better than Rapid Shot.

Obviously you want a high dex, but don't forget about Str. That bonus to damage is one of the few you get at any range. So one way or another you want at least a 16 str.

Don't forget to have a least one "Burst" enchantment on your bow. With your DWS enhanced crit multipliers, they really kick ass.

Mounted combat works very well for an archer, especially if you can get an exotic steed such as a Dire Wolf, advanced HD griffon (you want it with at least 11 HD so it gets the bump to Huge, w/t the stat increases) or a dragon of some sort. The key factor in mounted archery is that you can get a full move (since the mount is doing the movement) and still get off an attack. Throw a magic item with Expeditious retreat on the mount and have hours of fun straffing things.

If you go that route, you will need to add Leadership (over all the MOST powerful feat for a high level char), mounted combat and to a lesser extent mounted archery (halves penalties for shooting while mount does a double move or run).

 

[Bobbystopholes]

Rackhir,

I was going with Rogue for the prereqs in DWS, plus the SA stacked with the SA from OotBI.

I don't have the ELH or Silver Marches, this is my first FR campaign. I'm a Greyhawker. I now remember hearing about Peerless Archer and wouldn't mind it Now I gotta go buy the books... stupid money

What about good power/good fun templates?

 

[Rackhir]

Rackhir,

I was going with Rogue for the prereqs in DWS, plus the SA stacked with the SA from OotBI.

I don't have the ELH or Silver Marches, this is my first FR campaign. I'm a Greyhawker. I now remember hearing about Peerless Archer and wouldn't mind it Now I gotta go buy the books... stupid money

What about good power/good fun templates?

Taking a "Bow Ranger" (bow feats instead of TWF feats) as your first level fulfills the DWS req, quite nicely, if you can talk the DM into it.

Manual of the Planes has a number of nice templates that might make for an interesting change. There are two axiomatic and anarchic that are the law/chaos versions of Half-Celestial/Fiend templates. Or if you want to get REALLY strange, see if you can talk your DM into letting you take the Pseudonatural template from Tome & Blood Alienist class (note there is another template of the same name in the ELH, but it is FAR more expensive and powerful as you might guess).

 

[melkoriii]

For the template you could take "Winged" from the Savage Speacise book. I beleive its a +1 or +2 ECL that gives flight and a +2 to Dex plus some other things.

This is all from memery though but I know it was no more that +2 ECL

 

[mkletch]

We had a three player campaign: an archer (me), a cleric and a skills person. No wizard. That was tough. But my archer did pretty well. I'd certainly suggest Arcane Archer. Sure greater magic weapon can give you the magic arrows, but if you are doing rapid shot every round with a multi-shot on your haste action, you can burn through 50 arrows in under six rounds (I always did). Plus epic arcane archer rocks.

You need to take a level of Bard, Sor or Wiz to get into AA. So I was, by 17th level, Fighter 6/Diviner 1/Arcane Archer 8/Deepwood Sniper 2. The campaign ended at 21st level with two more levels in AA and two levels in OoBI. We did not have Silver Marches when the campaign was run, or I probably would have taken a few levels in Peerless Archer (though what I would have given up is a mystery to me).

Arcane archer has as class skills all of the things you need for DWS, so there is no need to 'waste' levels in a non-archer class like rogue.

-Fletch!

 

[Bobbystopholes]

I never really looked at Arcane Archer. Wow. Looks like I'm going to be going with Ranger 1/Fighter 4/Deepwood Sniper 2/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 9.

I'm really considering the Axiomatic (chaotic right?) instead of Celestial. Man, so many choices!

 

[Rackhir]

Axiomatic is the lawful. Anarchic is the chaotic.

Personally, I've never been fond of the AA. Their main ability the + arrows is trumped by GMW, which if you are in a party with 17th level Wiz and Cleric you should have no shortage of. Or as part of your equipment you could buy a Quiver of Endless +5 GMW arrows. So you really shouldn't have to worry about running out of + arrows. Buy a small supply for "just in case" though.

Now lets look at their other abilites.

Imbue arrow - Basically useless. Any spells that can be imbued are long enough ranged as to be pointless to imbue. Second as you only have 1 lv of wizard you won't have any good spells anyway.

Seeker Arrow - Nice but it's only 1/day and though the SRD is somewhat unclear on this, I believe it is the only attack you get that round.

Phase Arrow - Ditto for Seeker Arrow

Hail of Arrows - Now this one is SWEET, but again it's only 1/day and you can pick it up as a feat once you hit epic levels, which isn't that far away.

Arrow of Death - Sounds nice, but it's only a DC20 fort save. Most high level monsters can make that in their sleep.

So aside from Hail of Arrows, which you can pick up in 4 levels anyway, all of the AA's abilities are of at best limited use.

A DWS/Peerless Archer would wipe the floor with an AA the way you've built him.

One other thing, unless your DM has modified the Multiclassing rules, you are going to suffer an XP penalty for having Ranger 1 / Fighter 4, setup. Elves have Wizard as favored class not Ranger or Fighter.

So, I would go Fighter 6/OoBI 2/DWS 7/PA 2. OoBI gets you the Combat shot ability. DWS I think gets you up to a x5 crit (don't have books) and I think PA 2 gets you Power Shot.

As far as magic items go.

Bow (fill in Later) 100k

Hewlet's Handy Haversack is a must, it more or less eliminates weight for your gear and you can stick a nearly never ending supply of arrows in one. 2k Gold

Bracers of Archery - +2 to hit +1 to damage is always worth while. 5k


Something to grant flight. You NEED mobility. There are a number of ways to do this.

Mythril chain shirt - Probably want Med Fortification (75% chance to negate Crits/sneak attacks) and +5 enchantment. 66k gold

Rings - Evasion (Save for no damage on AE spells) and either Free Movement (Immune to Hold X or any spells that restrict movement, inc underwater) or +5 Protection Ring. They cost 25k, 40k and 50k respectively.

Any or all of these are obviously extremely useful. They are each 36k.

Amulet of health (+6)
Belt of giant strength (+6)
Gloves of Dexterity (+6)

Beads of Force are very useful at 2k a pop. Particularly if you tie them to the front of your arrows. I'd take at least 5 for 10k.

Cloak of Displacement (Major) - 50k for a 50% miss chance vs ALL attacks.

Dark Blue Ioun stone - Grants the Alertness feat. 8k
Vibrant purple Ioun stone - Stores six levels of spells, 12k. A myriad of uses.

Lense of Detection - +10 to Search and Wilderness Lore skills. 3.5k

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Hint to your wizard friend to take chain spell as a feat and GMW on his spell list. A chained GMW will GMW your bow and more sets of 50 arrows than you'll ever use in one day. Then you can freely forget about the arcane archer.

Though an epic arcane archer rocks since those arrows go up to +10, and GMW stops at +5, and +6 arrows cost stuipid money, but with the Dr of some epic monsters you need it.