D&D 5E High Level Zealot Barbarians Immortal?

[Mephista]

So, to summarize...

Normal people who hit zero hit points have to either a) pass three Death saving throws or b) receive healing before failing three Death saving throws.

Barbarians may have a grace period of a few extra rounds in case b), depending on how long ago they started their rage, to receive healing.

Zealot barbarians have an additional advantage that they can keep their rage going even if they are not taking damage or attacking.

you have the two swapped, but yes

 

[Fanaelialae]

So, this is basically another Arch-Moon-Druid issue, where you need a spell to put someone under instead of killing them through hp damage. Doable at this level, though something to keep in mind when encounter building, which is annoying admittedly. But its worth noting that a simple Sleep spell at this point (or Eyebite, or similar) will knock a barbarian out of rage and kill it at this level.

Or just kill the rest of the group? Party wipe with one survivor is pretty much end game anyways, usually.

Barbarians are good at being tanks. Its kind of their thing. So, instead of doing a face-forwards pure damage brawl (which is going to be difficult in the first place), you'll need a bit more tactics.

Banishment would also work (just incapacitate and isolate the barbarian until rage runs out).

 

[OzDragon]

Please reread the rules I quoted: "if you would die due to failing death saving throws, you don’t die until your rage ends, and you die then only if you still have 0 hit points." This specific rule overrides the general rule for death saves but only for a level 14+ Zealot Barbarian.

Using this feature a level 14 Zealot Barbarian can go to 0 hit points, fail three death saves and still be conscious and alive until their rage ends. If they receive healing so that they have >0 hit points when their rage ends then they are still alive and avoid death.

I see I did not have the book with me.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Archetype capstones - if you want to use that terminology - aren't necessarily anything impressive. The totem one gives you a choice of becoming the tank for the party, or flying on your turn only (so you can't really use it to engage a flying enemy). The berserker one lets you attack as a reaction, which is actually kind of powerful, but it's balancing for the rest of the archetype being pretty underwhelming.

This zealot ability seems pretty situational - it lets you keep acting instead of falling unconscious, even if the healer hasn't revived you yet - but whether it's overpowered or underpowered is a question that only makes sense in the context of the rest of the archetype.

I disagree. I think archetype abilities need to also be balanced between archetype as well as within them.

But thanks to clarification from other posters, it seems the capstone is powerful but not broken. It seems you get to avoid death for 1 minute, regardless of damage or failed death saving throws. This is good that they don't limit you to failing 3 death saves, because as a frontline fighter that does not go unconscious, you would continue to draw those attacks and without an opportunity to disengage, you would probably die from auto-fail death saves. But then, prior to level 15, if you didn't attack or take damage that round, your rage would end and you would die. So eliminating the death saves and capping it at 1 minute all seem to work well.

I think I like this ability now. Potent, fitting, and doesn't seem broken, at least to me.

 

[OzDragon]

I disagree. I think archetype abilities need to also be balanced between archetype as well as within them.

But thanks to clarification from other posters, it seems the capstone is powerful but not broken. It seems you get to avoid death for 1 minute, regardless of damage or failed death saving throws. This is good that they don't limit you to failing 3 death saves, because as a frontline fighter that does not go unconscious, you would continue to draw those attacks and without an opportunity to disengage, you would probably die from auto-fail death saves. But then, prior to level 15, if you didn't attack or take damage that round, your rage would end and you would die. So eliminating the death saves and capping it at 1 minute all seem to work well.

I think I like this ability now. Potent, fitting, and doesn't seem broken, at least to me.

Actually to me after thinking about it is extremely broken. All healing below zero brings you to zero then heals you.

So say you are a 15th level barbarian and have 150 hp you get to zero you then have 150 more hp before you die. You can be left alone till you are around 100 points negative and get a 1st level healing word which brings you to 10 is HP in the positive rinse and repeat.

As the OP pointed out they are for lack of a better word immortal. Your healer is free to focus heals on everyone but you. (since his 1st level bonus action is basically a 6th level heal for you.)

Unless of course the ability is once per short rest. If it says when you are brought below zero Hp ....then its broken

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Here's how you beat a Zealot Barbarian.

Sleep.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

At level 15 death is more of an inconvenience than a problem, so I don't think this is particularly overpowered.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Here's how you beat a Zealot Barbarian.

Sleep.

Omg that's freaking brilliant.

 

[Guest 6801328]

At level 15 death is more of an inconvenience than a problem, so I don't think this is particularly overpowered.

Unfortunately, that is a totally valid point.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Actually to me after thinking about it is extremely broken. All healing below zero brings you to zero then heals you.

So say you are a 15th level barbarian and have 150 hp you get to zero you then have 150 more hp before you die. You can be left alone till you are around 100 points negative and get a 1st level healing word which brings you to 10 is HP in the positive rinse and repeat.

As the OP pointed out they are for lack of a better word immortal. Your healer is free to focus heals on everyone but you. (since his 1st level bonus action is basically a 6th level heal for you.)

Unless of course the ability is once per short rest. If it says when you are brought below zero Hp ....then its broken

Not quite... you don't track damage after you hit zero. Any damage causes a failed death save only (crits cause 2). The only time you check the damage dealt after zero is to see if the damage dealt in that hit exceeds hit point maximum. If it does, you suffer instant death. So, the only thing the Zealot in your example has to fear is being hit for 150 damage in one go. Otherwise, she can soak an unlimited amount of damage.