High Strength Monk

[Xeviat]

Not sure if that's directed only at the person you're quoting, but my answer (again) is that it misses the opportunity to do something new and flavorful and fun.

As a 4E fan, it is lazy design for me.


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[Guest 6801328]

As a 4E fan, it is lazy design for me.

Yeah...that, too. If we're just going to swap stats whenever the current ones aren't optimal, why bother to have different stats?

 

[CapnZapp]

Not sure if that's directed only at the person you're quoting, but my answer (again) is that it misses the opportunity to do something new and flavorful and fun.

Of course. I must have missed that.

Sure if you go into that design process with open eyes - the best wishes to you.

I was more asking out the assumption the OP wanted a minimal change with the least worry something would become imbalanced.

It is that light I think just replacing Dex with Str can't break much of anything, right?

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[CapnZapp]

Yeah...that, too. If we're just going to swap stats whenever the current ones aren't optimal, why bother to have different stats?

Because this is very far from the munchkin image you conjure when you talk about just switching stats whenever the existing constraints inconvenience your build?

In other words because his player just wanted to play a "strong monk", not having a minmax agenda?

When you realize you don't actually gain anything by switching Dex for Str, it should offer a very easy and very straightforward way to solve the OP's issue ☺




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[Guest 6801328]

Because this is very far from the munchkin image you conjure when you talk about just switching stats whenever the existing constraints inconvenience your build?

In other words because his player just wanted to play a "strong monk", not having a minmax agenda?

When you realize you don't actually gain anything by switching Dex for Str, it should offer a very easy and very straightforward way to solve the OP's issue ☺

Oh, my concern is not munchkinism, it's more...flavor. If Str and Dex are interchangeable, why not just have a "Body" stat and let players fluff it however they want?

I dunno. Aesthetically I just don't like it.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Latest iteration.

Way of the Mountain

Level 3: Stone Stance
You may spend your bonus action to enter Stone Stance, which lasts until you cancel it or move more than your Martial Arts Movement in one turn. (E.g., more than 10 feet at 3rd level.) While in Stone Stance:
- When you use Str as your attribute for attacks, your Monk Damage is increased by 1 die.
- You have Advantage on any Strength checks or saving throws to avoid being moved. If you fail you are moved only half the distance.

Level 6: Stone Strikes
- The DC for Saving Throws versus your abilities is calculated with the higher of Strength or Wisdom
- When you take the Attack action and spend Ki in the same turn, as a free action you may attempt to shove one creature that you damaged that turn.

Level 11: Improved Stone Stance
While in Stone Stance you gain additional abilities:
- You have Advantage on all Strength checks and saving throws.
- You have damage reduction to non-magical Piercing and Slashing damage equal to your Strength modifier.

Level 17: Avalanche
Spend 4 or more Ki to leap into the air and slam into the ground with the concussive force of a falling mountain. All creatures except you within 10’ take 1d8 Force damage for each Ki spent, and are knocked Prone. Enemies who succeed at a Strength saving throw take half damage and are not knocked Prone, but those who fail by 5 or more are also Stunned until the end of your next turn.

 

[Tormyr]

Latest iteration.

Way of the Mountain

Level 3: Stone Stance
You may spend your bonus action to enter Stone Stance, which lasts until you cancel it or move more than your Martial Arts Movement in one turn. (E.g., more than 10 feet at 3rd level.) While in Stone Stance:
- When you use Str as your attribute for attacks, your Monk Damage is increased by 1 die.
- You have Advantage on any Strength checks or saving throws to avoid being moved. If you fail you are moved only half the distance.

Level 6: Stone Strikes
- The DC for Saving Throws versus your abilities is calculated with the higher of Strength or Wisdom
- When you take the Attack action and spend Ki in the same turn, as a free action you may attempt to shove one creature that you damaged that turn.

Level 11: Improved Stone Stance
While in Stone Stance you gain additional abilities:
- You have Advantage on all Strength checks and saving throws.
- You have damage reduction to non-magical Piercing and Slashing damage equal to your Strength modifier.

Level 17: Avalanche
Spend 4 or more Ki to leap into the air and slam into the ground with the concussive force of a falling mountain. All creatures except you within 10’ take 1d8 Force damage for each Ki spent, and are knocked Prone. Enemies who succeed at a Strength saving throw take half damage and are not knocked Prone, but those who fail by 5 or more are also Stunned until the end of your next turn.

I would still prefer the brawler barbarian, but I think you have done a pretty good job of building a Strength monk. To make things "more 5e" (in my weird view of what that means...take with a hefty pinch of salt...):

Level 3: I think level 3 should be advantage on strength checks and saving throws full stop dropping the half movement on a failure. I am not sure about the additional damage die. A high level monk could be rolling 8d10 per turn. Another option that slightly lowers the damage output would be to instead include both the STR and DEX modifiers in the damage calculation instead of one or the other.

Level 6: The monk already can substitute one of their many attacks in a turn for a Shove. So I am not sure how necessary the Shove portion is.

Level 11: I think advantage on checks should go to level 3. Monks can be hard to hit, but this Strength monk is not going to be hard to hit because he probably has low Dexterity. Monk builds also often have lower Constitution scores. The Stone Stance monk might be easy to hit and low on hit points as opposed to a Dexterity monk that is hard to hit or a barbarian who has a lot of hit points. I think this should be resistance to all bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing weapons while in Stone Stance. This archetype may be squishy enough that the resistance to all weapon damage while in Stone Stance may need to be moved to level 6 or even level 3 and move those features to later levels.

Level 17: This is a really awesome ability for groups of enemies, but it may be too effective against weak enemies and not effective enough against high CR enemies. Also the wording is a little off. All creatures within 10 feet are affected, but only enemies get a chance to succeed on a saving throw. Instead of this, I would suggest borrowing from the paladin's smite mechanic. Allow the monk on a hit to spend ki to add an additional damage die for each ki spent up to some limit (maybe 5 or 9 ki). This allows for huge hits against single, high CR enemies at the cost of quickly burning ki. Like the Paladin's smite, it also pairs nicely with critical hits.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I would still prefer the brawler barbarian, but I think you have done a pretty good job of building a Strength monk. To make things "more 5e" (in my weird view of what that means...take with a hefty pinch of salt...):

Level 3: I think level 3 should be advantage on strength checks and saving throws full stop dropping the half movement on a failure. I am not sure about the additional damage die. A high level monk could be rolling 8d10 per turn. Another option that slightly lowers the damage output would be to instead include both the STR and DEX modifiers in the damage calculation instead of one or the other.

Oops. Poor phrasing. What I meant was to increase damage die type by one step. So 1d6 instead of 1d4, etc.

Level 6: The monk already can substitute one of their many attacks in a turn for a Shove. So I am not sure how necessary the Shove portion is.

Necessary, no, but I was trying to evoke the flavor of hitting with powerful hits. And being able to shove people around while fighting is always good fun. But I'll think about that one.

Level 11: I think advantage on checks should go to level 3. Monks can be hard to hit, but this Strength monk is not going to be hard to hit because he probably has low Dexterity. Monk builds also often have lower Constitution scores. The Stone Stance monk might be easy to hit and low on hit points as opposed to a Dexterity monk that is hard to hit or a barbarian who has a lot of hit points. I think this should be resistance to all bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing weapons while in Stone Stance. This archetype may be squishy enough that the resistance to all weapon damage while in Stone Stance may need to be moved to level 6 or even level 3 and move those features to later levels.

Yeah, I keep wrestling with that, too. The only thing I don't like about the resistance to B/S/P is that it duplicates Totem Barbarian 3rd level.

Level 17: This is a really awesome ability for groups of enemies, but it may be too effective against weak enemies and not effective enough against high CR enemies. Also the wording is a little off. All creatures within 10 feet are affected, but only enemies get a chance to succeed on a saving throw. Instead of this, I would suggest borrowing from the paladin's smite mechanic. Allow the monk on a hit to spend ki to add an additional damage die for each ki spent up to some limit (maybe 5 or 9 ki). This allows for huge hits against single, high CR enemies at the cost of quickly burning ki. Like the Paladin's smite, it also pairs nicely with critical hits.

Yes, the wording needs some cleanup. Should have said all creatures, not all enemies.

Maybe there should be a primary target, plus a blast radius. Full damage to the primary, half to everybody within the radius.