History, Mythology, Art and RPGs

[Galloglaich]

Peter Stubbe could very likely have been completely innocent ... or he may have been a serial killer. There were many other similar cases, such as Gilles De Rais in Medieval times, and Albert Fish in the US much more recently. Another case in Spain reminds me a great deal of Peter Stubbes confession:

The Wolfman of Allariz - Typically Spanish Features on Spain

the Romasanta case was made into a creepy movie in 2004

Romasanta (2004)

And guys like Albert Fish of course in more recent times.

There was also another similar 19th Century case in Romania but I can't find it right now.

Of course, on the other end of the spectrum there are also many well-documented cases of serial wolf attacks which did seem to be animals. The most famous is La Bete De Gevudain in the 18th Century which was the subject of at least three movies.

Beast of Gévaudan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a statue made to commenorate the incident

Just for fun, a few more famous wolf attack cases:

This one is a favorite, just because the account is so dramatic:

Wolf of Soissons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wolf of Soissons was a man-eating wolf which terrorized the commune of Soissons northeast of Paris over a period of two days in 1765, attacking eighteen people, four of which died from their wounds.

The first victims of the wolf were a pregnant woman and her unborn child, attacked in the parish of Septmont on the last day of February. Diligent locals had taken the infant, a scant four or five months old, from the womb to be baptized before it died when the wolf struck again not three hundred yards from the scene of the first attack. One Madame d'Amberief and her son survived only by fighting together.

On 1 March near the hamlet of Courcelles a man was attacked by the wolf and survived with head wounds. The next victims were two young boys, named Boucher and Maréchal, who were savaged on the road to Paris, both badly wounded. A farmer on horseback lost part of his face to the wolf before escaping to a local mill, where a boy of seventeen was caught unawares and slain. After these atrocities the wolf fled to Bazoches, where it partially decapitated a woman and severely wounded a girl, who ran screaming to the village for help. Four citizens of Bazoches set an ambush at the body of the latest victim, but when the wolf returned it proved too much for them and the villagers soon found themselves fighting for their lives. The arrival of more peasants from the village finally put the wolf to flight, chasing it into a courtyard where it fought with a chained dog. When the chain broke the wolf was pursued through a pasture, where it killed a number of sheep, and into a stable, where a servant and cattle were mutilated.

The episode ended when one Antoine Saverelle, former member of the local militia, tracked the wolf to small lane armed with a pitchfork. The wolf sprang at him but he managed to pin its head to the ground with the instrument, holding it down for roughly fifteen minutes before an armed peasant came to his aid and killed the animal. Saverelle received a reward of three-hundred livres from Louis XV of France for his bravery.

These are also quite lurid:

Wolves of Périgord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wolf of Sarlat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wolves of Périgord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wolves of Paris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have read some speculation that the epidemic of wolf attacks in France in the 18th Century had to do with the population being systematically disarmed in this period, resulting in wolves becoming less fearful of the peasants over time. This seems to be the reason for the 20th Century Wolf attacks in India and Russia.

This one in Germany is interesting and definitely sounds politically related

Wolf of Ansbach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a great religious story about the killer wolf which was tamed by St. Francis:

Wolf of Gubbio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is one for our Swedish friends:

Wolf of Gysinge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This was one of the recent cases in India

Wolves of Ashta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and this was another

Wolves of Hazaribagh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The craziest story I ever heard about wolf attacks was the one where hundreds of starving wolves attacked German and Russian troops during WW I. Apparently (according to the wiki anyway) the same thing happened again in WW II.

from the Wiki:

During the First World War, starving wolves had amassed in great numbers in Kaunas, Vilna and Minsk and began attacking Imperial Russian and Imperial German fighting forces, causing the two fighting armies to form a temporary truce to fight off the animals.[6] After the fall of the Soviet Union, documents were discovered indicating that a number of wolf attacks had occurred in villages during the Eastern front. This information was apparently suppressed by the Soviet government in order to hide the consequences of the mass confiscation of firearms during the war.[7]

Here is the original 1917 New York Times article about this incredible event:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archiv...3DD103BE03ABC4151DFB166838C609EDE&oref=slogin

I wish somebody would make a movie about that one ..

Happy Sam Hain! Awoooooooooooooooo!!!!!

G.

 

[Galloglaich]

Cool spear fencing vid from Spain

YouTube - Spear training

 

[The Shaman]

The Beast of Gevaudan, the Wolf of Soissons, and the Drac of Beaucaire inspired encounters for my Flashing Blades campaign.

 

[Jack7]

I just saw Reclaiming the blade

I saw it tonight and thought it well done, as a general introduction to the subject. I wish they had spent far more time examining and displaying real Western Martial techniques than speaking about Hollywood cinematic pseudo recreations, but still it was pretty good. I wish they had shown some more scenes which gave a better impression of just how fast, sharp, brutal, and violent real fights are, but I guess this was more of a presentation dealing with the rediscovery and popular applications of such techniques.

I wouldn't mind studying some of the original texts myself. I very much enjoy studying ancient and old texts.

Glad you liked it. A lot of my friends were in that film.

If you don't mind Gall, who were your friends in the film? I'm guessing some of the younger guys in the various European Martial arts recreation groups. Or did you know some of the choreographers and scholars, etc?

By the way I enjoyed the article about Peter Stubbe, and the one about the wolves attacking German and Russian troops. And of course the story of Saint Francis and the Wolf is one of my personal favorites as Francis in one of my favorite Saints.

Well, I got a training exercise tomorrow.
Gonna hit the hay early.

See ya.

 

[Galloglaich]

I saw it tonight and thought it well done, (snip) I wish they just how fast, sharp, brutal, and violent real fights are, but I guess this was more of a presentation dealing with the rediscovery and popular applications of such techniques.

Yeah I agree with you but it was a very good start at setting the record strait and putting all this stuff in context, the rise of the HEMA movement in the last ten years, the difference from the SCA and re-enactors and collegiate fencers etc.

I wouldn't mind studying some of the original texts myself. I very much enjoy studying ancient and old texts.

Of the maybe 100 or so Medieval European martial arts or fencing manuals which have been found so far (they still find 'new' ones every few months it seems), probably 40 have been translated into English (including many of the most interesting ones) most of which you can find online now in several places, both the original scans and the translations... and maybe 10 have had good interpretations published at this point which you can buy on Amazon, with probably another 20 or 30 about to be published.

If you like I can point you to the direction where you can find these, it's truly fascinating to me to study all this, both from a physical / martial arts point of view and just the academic / research point of view. You gain so much insight into this world, which was so much more cool than I ever thought. There are also free online videos (on youtube etc.) that you can watch demonstrating techniques of several of the main fencing traditions (such as German longsword, German messer, Italian dagger, Italian rapier, German ringen which is essentially analagous to Medieval jujitsu and etc.) Some of those I've already linked up-thread but there are many more. Let me know what you might be interested in specifically and I could show you.

If you don't mind Gall, who were your friends in the film? I'm guessing some of the younger guys in the various European Martial arts recreation groups. Or did you know some of the choreographers and scholars, etc?

Mostly the HEMA fighters, the martial artists, though I do know Jonathan Waller, the younger of the two fight choreogrophers from the Royal Armories at Leeds, the guy with the blonde hair. He was a regular on the Riddle of Steel forum and I knew him from there. The other guys I know from HEMA forums online mainly, Fabrice Cognot of Talles D'estoc and the annual international Longsword competition in Dijon was a contributor to the Codex. He was the guy with the long hair who said "Swords are... coool." at one point in the movie. Matt Easton and Dr. Gordon Brown who can be seen sparring with Shinai, and I think Matt also gave a little speach about English martial heritage or something. I also know some of the other guys, from Sweden, who you only can see fencing. I am also friends with Jay Vail, formerly of ARMA who spoke at one point in the film. He is one of the top dagger fighting experts in the world, I trained with him in Tallahassee about 2 weeks ago.

By the way I enjoyed the article about Peter Stubbe, and the one about the wolves attacking German and Russian troops. And of course the story of Saint Francis and the Wolf is one of my personal favorites as Francis in one of my favorite Saints.

Well, I got a training exercise tomorrow.
Gonna hit the hay early.

See ya.

Glad you liked it m8, I love that kind of stuff, I wish somebody would aggregate all those kinds of stories in one place as a resource for gamers. Maybe I should...

Good luck on your FTX..

G.

 

[Galloglaich]

The Beast of Gevaudan, the Wolf of Soissons, and the Drac of Beaucaire inspired encounters for my Flashing Blades campaign.

Man, that is a weird coincidence, a friend of mine from my fencing group was telling me about Obsidian Portal on the phone tonight... synchronicity is a strange and powerful force....

EDIT: I see you also have La Maupin in there , one of my favorite historical characters of all time (quite a bit on her here upthread).

G.

 

[Jack7]

Of the maybe 100 or so Medieval European martial arts or fencing manuals which have been found so far (they still find 'new' ones every few months it seems), probably 40 have been translated into English (including many of the most interesting ones) most of which you can find online now in several places, both the original scans and the translations... and maybe 10 have had good interpretations published at this point which you can buy on Amazon, with probably another 20 or 30 about to be published.

If you like I can point you to the direction where you can find these, it's truly fascinating to me to study all this, both from a physical / martial arts point of view and just the academic / research point of view. You gain so much insight into this world, which was so much more cool than I ever thought. There are also free online videos (on youtube etc.) that you can watch demonstrating techniques of several of the main fencing traditions (such as German longsword, German messer, Italian dagger, Italian rapier, German ringen which is essentially analagous to Medieval jujitsu and etc.) Some of those I've already linked up-thread but there are many more. Let me know what you might be interested in specifically and I could show you.

I would indeed. I'm hoping there will be an on-line resource sort of like the one for Da Vinci's notebooks and stuff. Or if not, at least maybe one developed over time.

Of course I can read the manuals in English. I can also read the manuals written in Latin (though I imagine by this time few if any are written in Latin) or Italian, and most of what is written in Spanish (as long as the script itself is readable).

I can also make my way through German manuscripts (it's been a long while but I could catch up with use) and maybe through some of the French.

So just point me at some stuff and I'll handle the rest. I'll add the links to my Research files and copy off stuff for my regular work computer files, and if there are whole books available then I'll add them to my Google on-line library, so others can reach and research them. If there are book hard-copies that are done well enough then I'll probably end up adding some to my personal library. I'd want illustrated versions for my home library.

Appreciate that, as it would save me a lot of hunting. And I'm sure I've got some buddies that would like to get a'hold of that kinda thing.

You can respond here, shoot me an e-mail, or shoot me a PM at this site.

Well, I'm off to church.
See ya.

And thanks again.
Hope you're well.

 

[Galloglaich]

There are actually editions of several of these manuals in Latin. Some German but it's Middle-high German in older dialects so that can be a bit
tricky.

This is hands down still the best overview of HEMA, Sydney Anglos "Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe"
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-Renaissance-Europe/dp/0300083521/ref=pd_sim_b_3]Amazon.com: The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe (9780300083521): Professor Sydney Anglo: Books[/ame]

Several interpretations and translations are available as books from Amazon etc., quality varies but the best translations are from Jeffrey Forgeng, IMO.

Some examples of good translations:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Art-Combat-German-Martial-Treatise/dp/1403970920/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258916364&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The Art of Combat: A German Martial Arts Treatise of 1570 (9781403970923): Joachim Meyer, Jeffrey L. Forgeng: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Art-Swordsmanship-Facsimile-Translation/dp/1891448382/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258916451&sr=1-2]Amazon.com: The Medieval Art of Swordsmanship: A Facsimile & Translation of Europe's Oldest Personal Combat Treatise, Ro Yal Armouries MS I.33 (Royal Armouries Monograph) (9781891448386): Jeffrey L. Forgeng: Books[/ame]


Many manauls are scanned and / or translated online, here are just a few of them:


German Longsword

Joachim Meyer 1560

English translation with black and white scanned images
Meyer's Fechtbuch

Talhoffer 1467

English Translation
Talhoffers Fechtbuch aus dem Jahre 1467

Talhoffer 1459
(original scan in German... really nice pictures)
thott

Paulus Hector Mair 1550 (scan with really good color images ... images start around page 30 or 40 or something)

Digitale Bibliothek - Münchener Digitalisierungszentrum

Goliath 1452

Translations with images
Goliath

Von Danzig
Partial translations with images
von.danzig

Sigmund Ringeck 1450
Scan
SCHOLA SWORDSMANSHIP FORUM • View topic - Sigmund Ringeck - 1450
Transcription
Hammaborg: Historical Swordsmanship

Codex Wallerstein (in German)
Scan
Codex Wallerstein

Transcription
Codex Wallerstein - Freywild

German Dagger

Exceptinally good translation and interpretation of Joachim Meyers dagger fighting
Meyer Frei Fechter, Free Fencing Guild

German Messer
Hans Lecküchner 1478

Translation and interpretation with images
http://schielhau.org/lebkommer.html
scan of original document
Cod. Pal. germ. 430: Hans Lecküchner: Kunst des Messerfechtens (Nordbayern (Nürnberg?), um 1478)

Albrecht Durer
Schola Gladiatoria

Fiore (Italian Longsword, Grappling and Dagger)

Flower of battle 1410

three different English translations
Fiore Project
Schola Gladiatoria - Fior di Battaglia - Getty
Schola Gladiatoria - Fior di Battaglia - Morgan

Italian 16th Century Manuals (Greatsword, rapier, transitional rapier, dagger, spear etc.)

Achille Marrozzo 1568 (several partial translations)
SCHOLA SWORDSMANSHIP FORUM • View topic - Opera Nova - Achille Marozzo 1568 (3rd Ed)

Aggrippa 1531 (scan)
http://mac9.ucc.nau.edu/manuscripts/agrippa.pdf

Portuguese
Montante (two handed sword) manual, Transcription and English translation

http://oakeshott.org/Figueiredo_Montante_Translation_Myers_and_Hick.pdf

French Pollaxe 15th Century

Jeu Du La Hache

English translation
Notes on Le Jeu de la Hache

 

[Jack7]

There are actually editions of several of these manuals in Latin.

I'm surprised, but glad. I would have expected by this time that vernacular pressures would have pretty much assured that things like combat and war manuals would have been written exclusively in native tongues (for nationalistic, sectarian, and military security reasons). Still, you never lose money betting on the unusual and bizarre in history.

I really appreciate that information. I'm gonna go through them all when I can and add them to my research files and libraries.


P.S.: By the way, I meant to tell you that I now have Google translate on my browser. Yeah, I don't trust it completely but it'll help me get through my rusty German and not so grand French easy enough. So that's no problem. I've already tested it for usefulness. The magic and miracles of modern technology.

P.P.S.: And Good Lord, Albrecht Durer? The Albrecht Durer? I know the intro says there was no evidence he was a member of the Fighting Guilds, but, imagine he was. This reminds me very much of Newton acting as an agent and undercover operative for the Exchequer. It also reminds me of a time in which men were much more interesting, generally speaking (because they did so many different kinds of things over the course of their lives) than is currently the case with modern life where unfortunately people concentrate on single issue careers for most of their life (People used to have adventures associated with what they did, now they just have careers, though that too now is thankfully changing about modern society and culture). It also reminds me of the day when Artists were far more than just artists, in the modern and very small and restricted sense, but were Artists in the larger sense. I got a buddy who will get a real kick out of Durer or one of his men) illustrating this Fechtbuch. I like the idea and so will he.

I though would like to see the day when the Renaissance Gild ideal becomes the norm for modern society, and people can and do freely exercise everything they are good at (though they can now if they really want to).

 

[Galloglaich]

Yeah quite a bit of the old fencing culture, perhaps surprisingly, was associated directly with the Church or Monks, such as the famous 14th Century I.33 or Walpurgis manuscript, which was written in a Monastery and depicts two Monks and a mysterious woman practicing fencing. I think of it somewhat the same way as how a lot of good beer and liquor was and is still made in Monasteries. Those fellows had to do more with their time than just pray I guess.

Some of the later manuals had Latin editions, most were written in the Vernacular in at least one edition, but Latin was something of the universal language of the time so could cross borders more easily.

Google Translate can be helpful but keep in mind 15th / 16th Century German is a lot different from modern German.

G.