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Houserules to Introduce More Dynamic Combat?

Sylrae

First Post
I want to encourage the players to do more interesting things in combat. More moving around, more maneuvers, etc.

Here are some of the things I've got so far:
1. The Vital Strike Chain is now just part of BAB progression (you get them for free as you qualify). This should make it less penalizing to move on your turn.]
2. When attempting a combat maneuver that provokes AoOs, you only provoke if you fail (or alternately, you provoke after the attempt, instead of before. o on a successful disarm or trip, the opponent cant take the AoO). - There are some other tweaks that might work with this one, but I want to encourage maneuvers more.
3. Kobold Quarterly's rules for fighting a monster from atop its back.
4. Facing? It makes position matter more. Hmm.

I'm interested in any suggestions that make combat more dynamic and less stand and swing.

I'm particularly interested in anything that makes combat (or gameplay in general) a bit more Like Prince of Persia or Assassin's creed. Taking advantage of being behind the enemy, jumping over enemies, sliding under them, grabbing, wall running, free running, etc. Turning an opponents attack around and making them hit themself, etc.

Any suggestions?

I'm going to think on it a bit more and add anything I think of. Hopefully there are some cool ideas from other people too.
 

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Queranil

First Post
I recognize the problem of the boring turn taking and swinging. But as a GM myself, i must admit that when that happends, it is usually my own lack of inspiration. The GM can make combat more dynamic by playing the opponents more dynamic. That forces the player to follow them and adept to their combat style.

Another thing that can slow down combat is the dice rolling. Making decisions fast and even making up results or winging part of the combat can be useful for a dynamic play. Although it is dangerous to do and should be used with caution. Also describing what the enemy and player does is important. It can be very boring to just hear how many attacks hit and what the damage total is. Allowing player to pull off some exiting moves that aren't standard is a good option too.

There are feats (although most are 3.5) that promote the kind of play you ask for. The one that came to mind is Elusive Target (Complete Warrior p110), but there are many more.

I'm not familiar with the Kobold Quartely rules, althoug I am curious about them.
 

Kaisoku

First Post
Back during 3.5e days, I was thinking of a way to spice up combat for E6 (since we were cutting out a lot of higher level options).
Never got a chance to play E6 yet, so they've been kind of shelved.

Here's some of the ideas I came up with though:

__________

Exposed
Any time you'd normally provoke an Attack of Opportunity, you instead gain the "exposed" condition.

Exposed: You have overextended yourself and left yourself open to easier attack. You have a -2 penalty to AC.
This condition typically lasts until the beginning of your next turn after the action that caused it is gone.

Some class features, abilities, and feats, etc, can trigger when someone you threaten has this condition. Sneak attack, for example, kicks in when someone is exposed. Any feat that would normally remove the Attack of Opportunity for performing an action, makes it so you no longer gain the exposed condition.
If you are in a position where you are considered flanking someone, you treat them as exposed. Improved Uncanny Dodge makes it so you are not considered exposed even when someone is flanking you (unless they have higher Sneak Attack levels, etc).

Change to the Combat Reflexes feat:
"When someone within your threatened reach becomes Exposed, you may make an attack roll as a free action, even if it isn't your turn. You can make such an attack once per round, plus an additional number of attacks equal to your Dexterity bonus (if any).
You may only make one such attack per person per round, regardless if they become exposed for multiple reasons."

A new feat specifically using this condition:
Unbalancing Strike
Upon making a successful attack, you can forgo dealing damage to cause your target to gain the exposed condition.

Basically, the point here is that it doesn't interrupt combat quite as much, and makes it so only a smaller subset of opponents will gain a major effect from it. Performing a combat maneuver untrained is still negatively impacting, but someone might be more inclined to do it.
Ready Actions
As a standard action, you can ready to interrupt an opponent's action with your own standard action. If this attack leaves the target in a position where they are unable to complete their action (such as movement after being tripped), their action ends.
As with normal spellcasting rules, any damage taken forces a Concentration check to prevent being disrupted.

When readying an action, you must declare what weapon, item or spell you intend to use as part of the action. You need not declare which target you intend to interrupt, or what action you intend to interrupt, however you may only act upon the actions of those you were aware of at the time of readying (new opponents or previously unseen opponents actions cannot be acted on).

Some feats and items based on this change:
Sudden Interrupt (feat)
As an immediate action, you may forgo your next turn's standard action to act as if you had readied an action to interrupt. Note, this also uses your next turn's swift action.
You may make use of any weapon or item currently readied, against any target you can currently perceive.

Quickdraw
You may draw or sheath a weapon or item from upon your person as a free action, even if it isn't your turn. You are no longer exposed when drawing or sheathing a weapon. The weapon or item must have a sheath ready to be drawn or sheathed.
You may also draw and throw a weapon made for throwing as an attack. Splash weapons that are ready to be drawn can be thrown as an attack.

Standard Item: Bandoleer
A strap of leather that fits over the shoulder. It has loops that can be made to hold throwing weapons, ready to be drawn and thrown, instead of locating the weapon in a bag or backpack.
You may hold up to 12 flasks or throwing weapons in a single bandoleer.

Magic Item addendum: Handy Haversack
For purposes of the Quickdraw feat, items retrieved are considered ready to be drawn, but not sheathed.

The reason for this change was to make readying an action something you'd want to do. Basically, it's kind of like how Delaying works (jump in at any time), but with only your standard action, and you can interrupt someone's actions.
Moving the requirement from "when something happens" to "what you are readying to use" makes it so there's less chance of losing your action outright.

It also helps influence counterspell magic (which I have a section on as well), but I'm assuming you are wanting changes for non-spell combat mostly.


Aid Another
As a swift action you may aid an ally by granting a +2 circumstance bonus towards their action. This may only grant a bonus towards an attack roll, defense, skill check, or level check (for caster level or sneak attack level). You must be adjacent to the ally for defense and skill checks that affect the ally. You must be adjacent to the target the ally wishes to affect for attack rolls, level checks, and skill checks that are influencing the target.
You must have caster levels to grant a bonus to caster level, and must have the Sneak Attack ability to grant a bonus to sneak attack level.

New feats that work on this change:

Mob Attack
When performing an Aid Another action, you may instead grant a +1 bonus to every ally applicable that also has this ability.
Special: Zombies automatically have this feat.

Teamwork
When performing an Aid Another action on someone who also has this feat, you may do so as a free action instead of a swift action. You are still limited to making only one Aid Another action per round.

This makes zombies scary, if done in larger groups.
Also, it makes it so the swift action is used more for people in the game. Using it to charge (see below), or with immediate actions will mean you don't get to give that +2 to an ally. It forces tactical thinking.


Charge

When making an attack standard action, you may use a swift action to make it a charge. You may move up to your speed as part of the charge, and must move a minimum of 10 feet. All movement related to the charge must be in a straight line.
You may make an additional move action prior to the charge, to add to your charging distance, or to get into position prior to charging. You can instead use a move action after the charge to move past your target, however you are still considered to having the exposed condition to them if you leave their threatened space.

If you are attacking from higher ground or from falling from a greater height than the target, you deal double your Strength damage.

Feat related to this:
Leaping Charge

If you make a successful jump check of DC 12 as part of your charge, you can double your Strength damage on the attack. This is similar to the benefit of falling or having higher ground, and does not stack.

I never liked how the charge mechanics worked, and feel this should make getting into charging position, or charging on the surprise round, more simplified.
I also like the idea of people flinging themselves off tall objects onto creature's backs. Very cinematic.. might as well reward it.


Combat Stunts
You can use a skill check to create a new action, or remove penalties from an action related to combat.
These actions are typically specific to the situation, and based on GM's approval.
Typical DCs for performing actions are DC 12 (Easy), DC 16 (Advanced), or DC 20 (Complicated or Difficult).
Alternatively, an opposed check (as normal for the skill, such as speaking skills vs Sense Motive), can determine who is affected or unaffected.

Some examples:

Use a speaking skill (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, or certain Perform skills) to create a surprise round even though everyone can see each other. Usage must be before combat starts.
Think of Cpt Mal from Firefly talking to the agent. He talks normally, but interrupts his own speech with a quickdraw and fire (surprise round) before finishing his sentence.

Use a movement skill (Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly, Swim, or certain Perform skills) to remove penalties for move actions (like moving through difficult terrain), perform move actions quicker (like standin1g up), or add effects to rolls if movement is done (making a diveroll to gain AC or Attack bonus).
This is great for adding more John Woo style of combat. Especially good if you run a game with gun rules.

Use a perception skill (Appraise, Heal, Perception, Sense Motive, or Survival) to modify your attack (such as increasing crit chance, or free use of the Dirty Trick maneuver).
This is good for describing characters that pay attention to anatomy, or the movements of their enemies to gain openings.

This was done to have a mechanic in place when creative players come up with neat ideas and the GM wants to include it in some way.
I had one player ask if they could dive over a bar, quickdrawing and throwing a dagger as they did, and roll up to another target to attack with another dagger. They didn't have quickdraw or a BAB +1 to draw a weapon during the movement, but I gave it to them with a decent Acrobatics check.

___________

This turned out to be quite a lot longer than I intended, so I hope this was the kind of stuff you were thinking of.
 

Kaisoku

First Post
4. Facing? It makes position matter more. Hmm.

Positioning already matters a lot in the game, and it would make things difficult to track or adjudicate. Such as not letting someone turn around a little after 9 other people's actions, etc.

The game already does well enough to create an idea of splitting focus and leaving yourself open to attacks.

What I think needed help was Perception and Stealth rules.

So instead of Perception by itself (which I didn't like that the Int skill was just left behind when Search was folded into it), there's two skills: Notice and Investigate.

The Notice skill uses Wisdom, and is a reactive skill (allows you to be aware of presence, etc). Sort of like how Scent works to let you know the presence of an enemy.

The Investigate skill uses Intelligence, and requires active use. You have a facing when using this skill, because (especially visually) you are only investigating a particular cone at a time.

This gives Stealth a chance to work in a lot more situations, and especially for Rogues. Someone with a decent Notice might not be affected by a surprise round, but they won't be able to properly defend themselves against an attack from hiding unless they have a good Investigate and actually look for that hidden target.
 



Sylrae

First Post
What issue is this article in?
KQ3 Eight Ways to Up the Action; its number 3; though all of them are good.

[Have the monsters use tactics and make the players adapt.]
A good idea, to be sure, though I want the combat mechanics themselves to be more interesting.

[Dice rolling slows down combat, as do checking rules, dont be afraid to wing it as GM to save time]
True, but I'm not finding combat too slow, I just wish the rules better supported the melee characters doing cool stuff in combat.

[Fluff Description to make things less tedious.]
Decent advice, it makes the rules you have more interesting, but I want more actual options, and want them to be used frequently, not just by characters who are built to use them all the time.

Allowing player to pull off some exiting moves that aren't standard is a good option too.
Absolutely, but I'd rather build up a collection of them, so I'm ruling more consistently, but yes, this definitely helps, and its something I already do, I want to go further though.

There are feats (although most are 3.5) that promote the kind of play you ask for. The one that came to mind is Elusive Target (Complete Warrior p110), but there are many more.
I'm interested in these. I'd like to see them and maybe find a way to make them something anyone can do, with a feat to make them better at it.


Exposed
Any time you'd normally provoke an Attack of Opportunity, you instead gain the "exposed" condition.

Exposed: You have overextended yourself and left yourself open to easier attack. You have a -2 penalty to AC.
This condition typically lasts until the beginning of your next turn after the action that caused it is gone.

Some class features, abilities, and feats, etc, can trigger when someone you threaten has this condition. Sneak attack, for example, kicks in when someone is exposed. Any feat that would normally remove the Attack of Opportunity for performing an action, makes it so you no longer gain the exposed condition.
If you are in a position where you are considered flanking someone, you treat them as exposed. Improved Uncanny Dodge makes it so you are not considered exposed even when someone is flanking you (unless they have higher Sneak Attack levels, etc).

Change to the Combat Reflexes feat:
"When someone within your threatened reach becomes Exposed, you may make an attack roll as a free action, even if it isn't your turn. You can make such an attack once per round, plus an additional number of attacks equal to your Dexterity bonus (if any).
You may only make one such attack per person per round, regardless if they become exposed for multiple reasons."

A new feat specifically using this condition:
Unbalancing Strike
Upon making a successful attack, you can forgo dealing damage to cause your target to gain the exposed condition.

Basically, the point here is that it doesn't interrupt combat quite as much, and makes it so only a smaller subset of opponents will gain a major effect from it. Performing a combat maneuver untrained is still negatively impacting, but someone might be more inclined to do it.
I'm not sure I like this one, but I kind of like AoOs. The only AoOs I dont like are when youre approaching a creature with reach and they get one AoO for each square you move through within that reach (though admittedly that might not be a thing anymore, and I can't be assed to look it up right now.)

Ready Actions
As a standard action, you can ready to interrupt an opponent's action with your own standard action. If this attack leaves the target in a position where they are unable to complete their action (such as movement after being tripped), their action ends.
As with normal spellcasting rules, any damage taken forces a Concentration check to prevent being disrupted.

When readying an action, you must declare what weapon, item or spell you intend to use as part of the action. You need not declare which target you intend to interrupt, or what action you intend to interrupt, however you may only act upon the actions of those you were aware of at the time of readying (new opponents or previously unseen opponents actions cannot be acted on).

Some feats and items based on this change:
Sudden Interrupt (feat)
As an immediate action, you may forgo your next turn's standard action to act as if you had readied an action to interrupt. Note, this also uses your next turn's swift action.
You may make use of any weapon or item currently readied, against any target you can currently perceive.

Quickdraw
You may draw or sheath a weapon or item from upon your person as a free action, even if it isn't your turn. You are no longer exposed when drawing or sheathing a weapon. The weapon or item must have a sheath ready to be drawn or sheathed.
You may also draw and throw a weapon made for throwing as an attack. Splash weapons that are ready to be drawn can be thrown as an attack.

Standard Item: Bandoleer
A strap of leather that fits over the shoulder. It has loops that can be made to hold throwing weapons, ready to be drawn and thrown, instead of locating the weapon in a bag or backpack.
You may hold up to 12 flasks or throwing weapons in a single bandoleer.

Magic Item addendum: Handy Haversack
For purposes of the Quickdraw feat, items retrieved are considered ready to be drawn, but not sheathed.

The reason for this change was to make readying an action something you'd want to do. Basically, it's kind of like how Delaying works (jump in at any time), but with only your standard action, and you can interrupt someone's actions.
Moving the requirement from "when something happens" to "what you are readying to use" makes it so there's less chance of losing your action outright.

It also helps influence counterspell magic (which I have a section on as well), but I'm assuming you are wanting changes for non-spell combat mostly.
I really like your change to Readied Actions. As for counterspell, I have a detailed counterspelling mechanic in place already in my games. I submitted it to KQ at one point but it didnt make the cut for the issue. They said they liked it and they'd put it on their website as a free download, but I never bothered to take them up on the offer.

Aid Another
As a swift action you may aid an ally by granting a +2 circumstance bonus towards their action. This may only grant a bonus towards an attack roll, defense, skill check, or level check (for caster level or sneak attack level). You must be adjacent to the ally for defense and skill checks that affect the ally. You must be adjacent to the target the ally wishes to affect for attack rolls, level checks, and skill checks that are influencing the target.
You must have caster levels to grant a bonus to caster level, and must have the Sneak Attack ability to grant a bonus to sneak attack level.

New feats that work on this change:

Mob Attack
When performing an Aid Another action, you may instead grant a +1 bonus to every ally applicable that also has this ability.
Special: Zombies automatically have this feat.

Teamwork
When performing an Aid Another action on someone who also has this feat, you may do so as a free action instead of a swift action. You are still limited to making only one Aid Another action per round.

This makes zombies scary, if done in larger groups.
Also, it makes it so the swift action is used more for people in the game. Using it to charge (see below), or with immediate actions will mean you don't get to give that +2 to an ally. It forces tactical thinking.
This lets you do aid another for bonuses to more things, right?

Charge
When making an attack standard action, you may use a swift action to make it a charge. You may move up to your speed as part of the charge, and must move a minimum of 10 feet. All movement related to the charge must be in a straight line.
You may make an additional move action prior to the charge, to add to your charging distance, or to get into position prior to charging. You can instead use a move action after the charge to move past your target, however you are still considered to having the exposed condition to them if you leave their threatened space.

If you are attacking from higher ground or from falling from a greater height than the target, you deal double your Strength damage.

Feat related to this:
Leaping Charge

If you make a successful jump check of DC 12 as part of your charge, you can double your Strength damage on the attack. This is similar to the benefit of falling or having higher ground, and does not stack.

I never liked how the charge mechanics worked, and feel this should make getting into charging position, or charging on the surprise round, more simplified.
I also like the idea of people flinging themselves off tall objects onto creature's backs. Very cinematic.. might as well reward it.
That's Kindof Cool. Personally I give everyone the duelist charge ability as part of basic charge. If you want to charge over stuff, just make the relevent checks. But I like piratey combat. I may add this to my game too. Pretty good.

Combat Stunts
You can use a skill check to create a new action, or remove penalties from an action related to combat.
These actions are typically specific to the situation, and based on GM's approval.
Typical DCs for performing actions are DC 12 (Easy), DC 16 (Advanced), or DC 20 (Complicated or Difficult).
Alternatively, an opposed check (as normal for the skill, such as speaking skills vs Sense Motive), can determine who is affected or unaffected.

Some examples:

Use a speaking skill (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, or certain Perform skills) to create a surprise round even though everyone can see each other. Usage must be before combat starts.
Think of Cpt Mal from Firefly talking to the agent. He talks normally, but interrupts his own speech with a quickdraw and fire (surprise round) before finishing his sentence.

Use a movement skill (Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly, Swim, or certain Perform skills) to remove penalties for move actions (like moving through difficult terrain), perform move actions quicker (like standing up), or add effects to rolls if movement is done (making a diveroll to gain AC or Attack bonus).
This is great for adding more John Woo style of combat. Especially good if you run a game with gun rules.

Use a perception skill (Appraise, Heal, Perception, Sense Motive, or Survival) to modify your attack (such as increasing crit chance, or free use of the Dirty Trick maneuver).
This is good for describing characters that pay attention to anatomy, or the movements of their enemies to gain openings.

This was done to have a mechanic in place when creative players come up with neat ideas and the GM wants to include it in some way.
I had one player ask if they could dive over a bar, quickdrawing and throwing a dagger as they did, and roll up to another target to attack with another dagger. They didn't have quickdraw or a BAB +1 to draw a weapon during the movement, but I gave it to them with a decent Acrobatics check.
I really like this one, but I think I'd want a list of example check DCs and the benefits they can provide, to serve as guidelines and inspiration for characters.

This turned out to be quite a lot longer than I intended, so I hope this was the kind of stuff you were thinking of.
This was fantastic!

These are great examples.

I came across a page with some more good ideas (though maybe they could use a bit of polish, that add to this sort of combat intensifying. It adds some unexpected opportunities to punch people in the face or use combat maneuvers.

I'd like my D&D action to take a bit more of a cue from sources such as:
* Pirates of the Caribbean 1 to 4 - Free-running and crazy stunts in combat.
* Centurion (as mentioned in the link)
* Prince of Persia - Running up walls, along walls; Jumping over or under enemies, making enemies hit eachother when they swing at you.
* Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver - More detailed options for knocking opponents into things to hurt or kill them outright.

Here were a few Ideas I had with facing and flanking, I havent played them in dnd, Just something I've been pondering (based on a houserule I had in my last Storyteller system game):
1. Creatures have a Facing.
2. Attacking from the side gives you the benefits of flanking.
3. Attacking from behind gives you bigger benefits than flanking, or makes them flat footed if they dont know anyone is behind them.
4. Flanking on two sides provides the flanking bonus to anyone who attacks them. So you can flank two sides while he's being pelted by the archer.
5. If someone gets to treat them as flat footed, they use AC-2 or Flat footed ac to defend, whichever is lower.
6. Changing your facing is a swift action.

And potentially, redefine a round as a shorter period of time (3 seconds) - cutting movement speeds in half. I'm not sure about this one though.

It's worth noting that I intend to add these to Trailblazer style iterative attacks (reduce the number of attacks to a max of 2 for non twfers (4 for twfers and monks IIRC) while maintaining average damage per round).

I'll ponder some more ideas and add them as they come to me, but by all means contribute and comment on anything you can. :)

[Edit] I forgot to mention, Conan RPG 2e includes "advanced combat maneuvers", that anyone can do so long as they meet the prereqs, and theyre pretty cool too. Some might be a little too lethal for the common pathfinder player that doesn't like SoD effects (Decapitating Slash at BAB+10) but I think they could add alot to a game.
 
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enrious

Registered User
I'm not sure I like this one, but I kind of like AoOs. The only AoOs I dont like are when youre approaching a creature with reach and they get one AoO for each square you move through within that reach (though admittedly that might not be a thing anymore, and I can't be assed to look it up right now.)

A creature with reach *threatens* those squares, they don't automatically get AoOs.

They are still subject to the limit of one AoO per round, period, unless they have Combat Reflexes.

So just because a Huge monster may threaten 2 "extra" squares, it'd only get one AoO. And once he's used it up, he can't make another that round on anyone else running up to 'em.

It makes Combat Reflexes pretty powerful and pretty rare on Large+ monsters.
 

Kaisoku

First Post
Even with Combat Reflexes, you don't get to do more than one attack for moving through threatened space:

Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
My suggestion for AoO wasn't so much because of a dislike of how it works, but as a response to change how players approach the game. Players are more likely to do things that they aren't specifically focused in, if it doesn't mean someone will automatically get to smack them in the face when they try it. The change promotes more dynamic combat.

The APG's Dirty Trick maneuver is another option for spicing things up and getting a mechanical benefit out of it. If the AoO factor for doing it without a feat is removed, people might be more inclined to do it.
 
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Sylrae

First Post
My suggestion for AoO wasn't so much because of a dislike of how it works, but as a response to change how players approach the game. Players are more likely to do things that they aren't specifically focused in, if it doesn't mean someone will automatically get to smack them in the face when they try it. The change promotes more dynamic combat.

The APG's Dirty Trick maneuver is another option for spicing things up and getting a mechanical benefit out of it. If the AoO factor for doing it without a feat is removed, people might be more inclined to do it.

Your quote was the part I wasnt sure of, and that clears things up.

For combat maneuvers in general I was thinking of lightening up the AOO Provocations. Perhaps your target only gets an AOO if you miss (though everyone else gets it either way.) Or perhaps everyone only gets it if you miss.

Making the aoo go away completely I'd do on a case by case basis. frex: I intend to let people do unarmed attacks without provoking, no feat required.

I dont want to do away with AoOs, but I'm alright with changing when you get them to make people do interesting stuff in combat.

As for moving through threatened squares, its like a DC15 acrobatics to not provoke, isnt it? That doesnt seem too bad.
 

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