D&D 5E How do players know they are in the "wrong" location in a sandbox campaign?

[Thalionalfirin]

What I would do if I was running a published module as a sandbox campaign is to specifically tell the players that it's a sandbox.

I'd let them know that I'm not going to adjust the level of encounters to their current level. If they're 6th level characters and they run across a 3rd level encounter, then that's the way it's going to be. On the flip side, I'm not going to feel bad if they head down to a 9th level dungeon and get their butts kicked, I'll let them know that running is always an option, and sometimes may be the best one.

It's a matter of expectations and prior experience. Players whose majority of experience comes with 3rd and 4th edition are mainly (though not always) exposed to the concept of appropriate CR so there tends to be the expectation that they should be able to handle whatever they encounter (with varying levels of resource expenditure). Other players with more sandbox experience tend to assume the opposite... that on any given day, they can run into something that can kill them

Tell them to remember that there are THREE pillars in D&D, and that in a sandbox environment, exploration and interaction may be equally important as combat, and in some cases may be more so.

I'm not familiar with the specifics of PotA (I'm in the beginning of the campaign as a player myself) but I know of it's 1e predecessor, The Temple of Elemental Evil. So' I'm going to assume that there's a lot of cultist encounters. If the cultists in their lair/dungeon are too tough for the party, arrange a random encounter with just a few of them somewhere outside the dungeon to let them know how tough they are in smaller numbers. Then if they're trying to infiltrate the dungeon and they see a larger number of them, they've been warned.

Negotiation works too. Maybe less so if everyone in the party dumped charisma, but it's always an option. As is scouting ahead to possibly avoid encounters. Again... exploration and interaction.

Kick their butts early to set the tone. You don't necessarily have to kill them, but you do want to send a message in a sandbox campaign.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Personally, I just make the dangerous areas actually dangerous looking or obviously too difficult. I distinctly recall doing this in an expanded RttToEE campaign when the PCs arbitrarily decided to go straight to one of the enemy strongholds about 10 levels before they ought to be doing so:


DM: OK, as you north, you see a odd cloud in the distance. It almost looks like smoke, but it's kind of brownish.

PC1: Have I seen anything like this before?

DM: Yeah, it reminds you of the dust clouds that armies leave behind them when they're on the move.

PC2: I think we found it. We go that way.

PC3: I'll try to keep an eye out for scouts.

DM: You travel another half hour, and come to a high ridge overlooking the valley. You must be a mile away or so at this point. At the far end, you see a decent size palisade wall with a bunch of tents inside and around the outside. It's occupied by what can only be described as an army of hobgoblins. You see a few loose groups training with spears, bows, or hand-to-hand, as well as several more that look to be arriving from a long march, some of which are mounted. You can make out banners of Iuz flying on the palisade.

** The party gets excited thinking they're going to get into a nice little combat **

PC1: How many hobgoblins are there? I use my spyglass and move where I can see what's going on.

DM: Ok, you move out to where you can see better. The hobgoblins appear to be very well organized, unsurprisingly. The arriving formations are ordered into ranks, and doing some quick math they look to be about 100 hobgoblins.

** Players get more excited **

PC2: In total? That's all?

DM: No, that's in one formation. There are four such formations arriving, plus two mounted formations of about 40 or 50 each, you guess. Behind the formations you can see a long wagon train that has dozens and dozens of wagons in it.

** PC1 visibly pales. The excitement begins to falter **

DM: In the camp inside the palisade you can see row upon row of tents. Based on what you see, you think the number of hobgoblins already in the camp at least matches the number arriving. All told, the valley holds better than 1,000 hobgoblins. In the distance, you see another column of dust rising that's several miles away.

PC2: .

PC1: Iuz is on the move.


That, of course, is when PC3 and a hobgoblin patrol noticed each other, since the PC1 had basically skylined himself. They were so excited to have a combat, I figured it would be rude not to oblige them! The PCs hand to scramble to fight them, and just barely managed to kill the last one as he was riding back to camp to sound an alert. They were able to bring back information that the "hobgoblin raids" reported from the north were, in fact, Iuz (which, in this campaign, had absorbed eastern Furyondy) trying to get to the Gnarly Forest and the Temple to stop the cult. The PCs hoofed it back to the relative safety of Verbobonc, and for me it worked out very well, as they returned only a few levels later seeking (of all things) more allies as I ramped the campaign into a more obvious end of the world, only to find that the entire camp and most of the army lay destroyed in the valley with clear signs that earth and fire monoliths had been unleashed against them. Throughout the entire campaign, they would find remnants of the hobgoblin host, sometimes hostile, but often just tired and trying to survive.

 

[Charles Rampant]

Another reason why I'd want to split them out would be to remove this direct connection, which struck me as odd when I first read PotA.

Instead, if I was trying to run it all as the adventure chain it's intended to be I'd find some other way of linking each low-level module to its higher-level equivalent e.g. you need to find 4 keys in dngeons A-B-C-D to open the accesses to E-F-G-H, or something more original and-or elaborate along the same vague lines.

Lan-"then again, a few well-placed skull-and-crossbones motifs with a warning 'abandon hope all ye who enter here' might be easier"-efan

Absolutely agree - having run it, I would definitely break up the megadungeon myself. I'd probably just move different parts of it to separate locations in the Valley - that way encouraging more of a wandering sandbox feel. Even if you only reveal the next 'stage' of dungens when you want, the players still get free reign to choose between them, and you can minimise the dangers.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

For me it is a question of player agency: If the players *choose* hard, then hard is okay. If the players chose between "left or right?" with no additional information, it isn't okay if left is much harder than right.

You need to telegraph the threats.

Rumours in towns and on the road.
"Breen's group got their butts handed to them by some bandits near Bridgeford, but then again, Breen's guards are crap. Any half-decent warband should be able to clear the area."
Vs
"Breen's group got creamed by some monsters near Bridgeford. Pretty scary - Breen's group are experienced and well-armed. Whatever took them out must be bad."

Environment.
GM: As you approach the tower, the sky darkens and the air seems to get colder. You pass the corpse of several owlbears. Most look like they were killed with a single sword blow but one has half its body eaten away with acid.

The foes.
GM: As you peer over the hill, you see the guards at the cave mouth. They are well-equipped, with several weapons each and what looks like potion bottles on their belts. You see strung bows placed behind fixed shields, and you notice that the area in front of the cave has been cleared to the range of a bowshot. One of the guards is wearing lighter armour than the rest, and carrying a wand instead of a sword.
Vs
GM: As you peer over the hill you see half a dozen guards. They are badly dressed and not paying much attention. In fact, three of them are playing dice instead of watching for intruders.

 

[devincutler]

A problem often arises in trying to telegraph difficulty to players in game. A great example of this is...

HOARD OF THE DRAGON QUEEN SPOILERS:


In HotDQ your 1st level, newly rolled up PCs come to a town being ravaged by an ADULT blue dragon. The PCs are expected to rush to the defense of the town. But it is a known issue with that scenario that many PCs simply want to flee, and the scenario never gets started without the DM intervening and telling the players "it's OK".

I can recall a lot of low level dungeons where the background or rumours involved high level monsters (i.e. rumours of vampires where none exist or rumours that an ancient dragon used to live up there). I can recall low level adventures where the townsfolk proclaim that no one has ever returned from X. All of these should, logically discourage low level PCs.

A sandbox DM has to be very careful to avoid trying to make his level appropriate threats sound tougher than they are just for dramatic effect. Once the PCs cannot rely on your clues, the whole thing goes out the window.

So, sandbox telegraphing is a very fine art that can actually swing both ways.

 

[steeldragons]

In a sandbox, by definition, there are no "wrong locations."

 

[Caliban]

The same way you do in a real sandbox - when you step into something you shouldn't.

 

[Krachek]

Pure sand boxing is an utopia.

 

[jasper]

How do players know they are in the "wrong" location in a sandbox campaign?
The scary music. Not the jump scare type but the this character is going to show how the monster eats people.
The locals saying You ain't from around here are you? Get fer home!
The still wet paint on the sets.
Stranger waving of heat islands in every direction.

 

[Elon Tusk]

Think about sandboxing as roleplaying that is closer to the real life...

IRL, I wouldn't walk up to a bear and attack it with a dagger; I'd be cautious of where bears lived and be on the look out to avoid them.
I might try to deceive my boss that I wasn't late to work; I wouldn't try to try to deceive the TSA by hiding my bear knife in my boot.