D&D (2024) How is Flex still a thing?

[Horwath]

That's not a rational argument, nor possible to balance. It also makes an absolute nonsense of real historical weapons. Try to do better.

what is rational argument?

All weapons should do the same damage no matter what properties have?

If a weapon can do more than one thing, that added functionality must be payed somewhere, the easiest solution is to reduce base damage.

and by what do you mean in regards to real historical weapons?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Other people have pointed this out, but I think you and others are missing the point. Sometimes simple (ie. boring) is a strength all on it's own. Mechanically, it's not as strong as some others. But there is a huge advantage to having an always-on ability you don't have to think about.

Two campaigns ago, we had a rogue in our group. You have no idea how long it took him to remember to use his bonus action hide-dash-disengage. He's playing a paladin in our current game, and he only smites if we remind him he can. Any kind of mastery ability (other than something like Flex) would be useless to him.

Most of us (especially here) are far more experienced at this game. But there definitely is a space for the casual player who doesn't care about mechanics. I'm sure we've all seen them...the players who are only there to hang out with their friends, or because their boyfriend/girlfriend are playing. And since those players are probably more likely than not to be martials, having a basic plus that works with a basic sword and board build is perfect for them.

Heck, I've got 40 years under my belt, and love cool combat mechanics as much as the next grognard. But there are times even I might not want to have to deal with an extra roll for every attack. Sometimes the thought that "Hey, I can get the benefit of using this two-handed AND still use a shield? All the time? Bonus!" is a good thing.

They can still have that basic plus with a sword and board AND we can give it something that is better when used in two-hands.

We don't advocate redesigning smite spells because of this player. We don't advocate redesigning cunning action because of this player. Why are we INSISTING that flex must be a terrible option solely for this player?

 

[Horwath]

Yeah those are arguable. They seem like baseline weapon adjustments though. I've not seen any evidence suggesting that they are into that beyond tweaking Lance, trident, and net. Possibly you are casting your net too wide?

maybe a wide net needs to be cast.

Whole weapon table of 5e looks like someone stuffed their mouths with bunch of weapon names, properties and base damage and just sneezed at the board. And luckily few weapons randomly did turn out good.

 

[Reef]

They can still have that basic plus with a sword and board AND we can give it something that is better when used in two-hands.

We don't advocate redesigning smite spells because of this player. We don't advocate redesigning cunning action because of this player. Why are we INSISTING that flex must be a terrible option solely for this player?

Well, maybe because we all don't agree on how utterly terrible it is?

Either way, if you did want to add something to the two-handed version, it would have to be equally simple. Add +1 damage to Critical Hits when used Two-handed. There. At the very least, it would have to be always-on option, which means it can't be equal to abilities that need to be activated/can be resisted.

And yes, I maintain there should be some abilities that are passive. We obviously don't want to redesign the entire game around the lowest-common-denominator of player skill. But I firmly believe there should be at least some options that cater to people who don't want to think that hard on every attack.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

And yes, I maintain there should be some abilities that are passive. We obviously don't want to redesign the entire game around the lowest-common-denominator of player skill. But I firmly believe there should be at least some options that cater to people who don't want to think that hard on every attack.

The point is, though, the moment you have more than one applicable Weapon Mastery with a weapon, you kind of do have to think on every attack.

And also, if you only have one, you don't have to think any more or less with Flex than Topple. Both are fully automatic. Indeed the same is true for the majority of Weapon Masteries. It's outright false to pretend Flex is a "no thinking" one but Vex isn't.

 

[James Gasik]

Since the ability to use Weapon Masteries is a class feature, I think Weapon Masteries should be equal in power to a Fighting Style.

 

[Maxperson]

How can anyone look at Flail/Morningstar, or even Trident, and say, nah, I'm fine with Longsword/Warpick/warhammer?

Because some of us(I know this because I do it) pick weapons based on character concept and not just which weapon does .5 points of damage more a round than that weapon over there.

5e is so easy at the base level that you don't need the most optimal weapon to do very well and meaningfully contribute in combat.

 

[Horwath]

Because some of us(I know this because I do it) pick weapons based on character concept and not just which weapon does .5 points of damage more a round than that weapon over there.

5e is so easy at the base level that you don't need the most optimal weapon to do very well and meaningfully contribute in combat.

when I need concept, I can just take a longsword looks and say it has properties of Flail.
But one is concept and other is game balance, and I'm stupid enough to believe that we can have it both.

 

[Maxperson]

when I need concept, I can just take a longsword looks and say it has properties of Flail.

If the DM allows it, sure. If someone tried to do that in my game I'd tell them no, though. You can't have a longsword that is different in properties than everyone else's longsword unless it's magical or special(unique materials) in some way.

But one is concept and other is game balance, and I'm stupid enough to believe that we can have it both.

Depends on the game and group. Some groups would be good with you having the one longsword in the universe that does a d8 bludgeoning damage and won't do d10 two handed. Others not so much.

 

[mellored]

Replace Flex with

Basic mastery
If you would gain a mastery feature, you can use one of your choices to focus on the basics.
Increase the damage you deal by any weapon attack by 1.
You can not use this feature at the same time you use another mastery feature

Versatile weapons now have 2 properties.