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D&D 4E How should 4E deal with the power of fire?

WhatGravitas

Explorer
monboesen said:
Given that 4ed seems to go the way of cinematic fantasy I'd say Hell No, we don't need realistic rules for fire. It should be treated the same as the other possible energy damage types.
I think 4E should figure it in as a well-defined side effect of spells, like acid arrow deals damage over time, fire should get an one-shot damage on the next turn. Or certain spells can set things afire. Similar to the way the ray of frost in the playtest report could slow people.

This would make the different damage types more interesting than "which one avoids hitting the resistance" - it would make them more distinct and allows different strategies.

Cheers, LT.
 

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Wormwood

Adventurer
monboesen said:
Given that 4ed seems to go the way of cinematic fantasy I'd say Hell No, we don't need realistic rules for fire. It should be treated the same as the other possible energy damage types.
My most fervent hope.

edit: I agree with LT as well...each damage type could have an associated special effect---not as an attempt to emulate reality but rather to differentiate them at the table.
 
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vagabundo

Adventurer
I would like an ingame rules way of destroying magic items in 4e.

Sometimes just robbing them on the players isnt enough. You need it in print in the PHB.
 

shilsen

Adventurer
Edena_of_Neith said:
Now, I thought I had covered this already.
Back in the old days, it was a serious problem.

Actually, a lot of the other posters covered it already. Apparently, back in the old days, it was a serious problem for you, because you had some lousy DMs.

Simple solution? Play with better DMs.

Problem solved.
 

Jhaelen

First Post
Tewligan said:
:confused: A better question is why WOULD they? "Oh no, a ball of ice - it'll burn the house down!" Really, that's the most nonsensical question I've read all day.
Well, from what I've read about the 4E energy types, it could well be that each of them has a neat secondary effect besides simply dealing damage once. A ball of ice may have a slow effect or cover everything in a thin layer of ice making stuff slippery, etc.

Actually, several of the 3E psionic energy powers already had stuff like that.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Seriously, people carrying around 20 flasks of oil was a problem? Doesn't anyone see the obvious DM answer to this? Ambush the PCs with a young red dragon. Dragon breathes; PCs take 15 damage from its breath weapon and 60 points from their backpacks exploding.

Remember, all they that take the alchemist's fire shall perish with the alchemist's fire.
 

StarFyre

Explorer
hous rules

I ended up house ruling item saves with a combination of 3.5E and 1e/2e versions.

I found it worked out the best; still had tension, but also added the realistic flavour my players like.

(realistic in that, items can break, get blown apart, melt, etc and it does happen in large battles..makes them think before charging at something...sometimes)

I'm going to use the same type of system in 4E...so will skip 4E rules for item saves essentially.

Sanjay
 

Michael Silverbane said:
Edena of Neith said:
It can start fires. A Frostball cannot do that. Nor a Sonicball, Forceball, Acidball (not likely, at least), or Other-type-ball.
Why couldn't they?
Uh... excuse me? Is this a serious question? Why can't a frostball start fires? Are you actually asking that, or is this some kind of subtle sarcasm or something?
 


Edena_of_Neith

First Post
If I myself were DMing, I would allow Frostballs to start magical 'cold fires', which had the same effect as normal fires. Acidballs would start a kind of magical 'acid chain reaction' in which acid was magically produced and reproduced (a real mess if ever there was one.) Sonicballs would generate sonic blasts that would slowly escalate, and so on.
I would do this, if I and my players agreed that fire should be a Chain Reaction or an Infinity Weapon. It would be necessary, in each case, to determine what was immune to each 'element' (as stone withstands fire, other things withstand other elements.)

In an Infinity Scenario, where fire is the most powerful, the players must realize that their enemies WILL use fire on them (why wouldn't they?)
But then again, fire would be powerful. An enemy hit and enveloped in flame would have to make a DC check versus the damage or be rendered helpless, unable to even act to put out the fire by rolling, and anything in that square or adjacent squares would have to make a Dodge Save versus DC 11 or be set alight also (unattended items would receive no save.)
The target would take 2d6 damage per round, every round, minimum. If the target had greek fire on him, 2d6 extra damage per round. If the person was so unfortunate as to be in metal armor, 1d6 the first round, then 2d6 per round additional damage, and this would continue indefinitely so long as the armor was worn.
Any magical items destroyed would cause a burst of magical energy, which would inflict a yet addition 1d6 to 5d6 points of damage to all in that square and adjoining squares (depending on the power of the item.) Magical items would be VERY hard to destroy with even magical fire, much less ordinary fire, but if they were destroyed the consequences would be truly bad for the person wearing them. Artifacts and relics would be immune to fire.

In the Infinity Scenario, a shootout using fire spells or greek fire in the Middle of Town would be a real bad idea. Few spells have much fire dousing capacity (a Waterball, if it caused an Infinity effect of blasts of water, would help, but destroy things with the water blast.) Medieval methods would be hard pressed to stop the fire once it really started in on the wooden buildings.
This is a case of Everyone Involved Is Arrested and Charged With Multiple Murder Counts, Multiple Arson Counts, and properly loss claims in the tens of thousands of gold pieces. Can we say the Town's Local Version of 'Ivid's Endless Death' for the offenders?

In a woodland, the resulting forest fire is going to cause EVERY intelligent creature for miles who cared about the place to go after the pyros with a fury.
In a dungeon, the heat, smoke, and lack of oxygen is likely to make for a TPK for all sides involved, and creatures completely uninvolved in the fracas.

Yeah, in the Infinite Fire scenario, it's a party for all involved. The invitation is mandatory. Just don't count on the (utterly infuriated) town cleric throwing Cure Light Wounds on those 3rd degree burns! :)
Play with fire? You may win with this tactic. But you will, in the end, get burned.
 

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