Hunter's Rapid shot question

[Aulirophile]

Those aren't the rules being broken. Rather, the power is breaking the normal rules by allowing movement in between the "strikes" of an attack by calling them "attacks" where normally, the "strikes" of an attack are resolved as a normal "attack".

...No.. that isn't how the rules work. See the sequence for multi-attacks. It is explicit. Pick power, pick targets, roll to hit, see if you hit, do damage, apply effects, step 6: go back to step 3 if there is more then one target, repeat.

Reaction rules: after an attack is over, even if that attack is contained inside another action, you can react to it.

"Attacks" are "Attacks." Multi-attacks have benefits, this is one of them.

 

[Dan'L]

@OP: Have a power that is an RBA (Eldrtich Bolt, Divine Bolts+Power of Skill, etc) not based on Dex. Dump dex. Make a standard RBA against your allies at a huge penalty (no proficiency, low stat, no magic weapon, etc). Use the power that is an RBA on the monsters.

Rapid Shot (and the other Hunter At-wills for that matter) require ranged basic attacks "with a weapon." I think that a reasonable interpretation of this would preclude RBAs that do not include "weapon" as a keyword (i.e., no Acid Orb w/ dagger implement) Also, it's debatable whether Rapid Shot allows for different RBAs to be used against different targets. And finally, dump-statting Dex would make your Disruptive Shots fairly useless.

-Dan'L

 

[WalterKovacs]

Rapid Shot (and the other Hunter At-wills for that matter) require ranged basic attacks "with a weapon." I think that a reasonable interpretation of this would preclude RBAs that do not include "weapon" as a keyword (i.e., no Acid Orb w/ dagger implement) Also, it's debatable whether Rapid Shot allows for different RBAs to be used against different targets. And finally, dump-statting Dex would make your Disruptive Shots fairly useless.

-Dan'L

A simpler solution:

Non-magic (or +1) heavy thrown weapon, dump stat strength, and quick draw. So make a RBA with the heavy thrown against the ally amidst the firing of the bow. Not sure if it's 100% kosher (you should be able to hold a bow in 1 hand and attack with a weapon in the other, and then go back to using the bow, but if it requires free actions to 'switch' between those things, it may not be possible to do so 'during' an action).

 

[Aulirophile]

Rapid Shot (and the other Hunter At-wills for that matter) require ranged basic attacks "with a weapon." I think that a reasonable interpretation of this would preclude RBAs that do not include "weapon" as a keyword (i.e., no Acid Orb w/ dagger implement) Also, it's debatable whether Rapid Shot allows for different RBAs to be used against different targets. And finally, dump-statting Dex would make your Disruptive Shots fairly useless.

-Dan'L

Old Weapon Focus was "attacks with a weapon." Weapliments counted then (via Official FAQ, no less), they count now. RAW is clear on that.

And no, it isn't debatable (at least, not by RAW, which is frankly all I care about). Making an RBA against each target is the only requirement. That's it.

Neutering your Disruptive Strike is, of course, a downside.

 

[Colmarr]

...No.. that isn't how the rules work.

But it is a perfect example of when the rules should be ignored.

Catch 5 targets in the rapid shot and move 10 squares? I think not.

 

[Aulirophile]

But it is a perfect example of when the rules should be ignored.

Catch 5 targets in the rapid shot and move 10 squares? I think not.

No, I'm OK with that. I only really care about RAW and will cheerfully play by it, regardless. It doesn't hurt that I do, on occasion, get paid to DM 4e and when people pay money they kind of expect the game to be played by the actual rules. Why keep track of a bunch of different rules for different games when you can just... play by the rules? Seems to work out.

Plus one of the best things I like about 4e is it actually functions without houserules. Having played since first edition I would honestly say it is the first edition to do that.

 

[OnlineDM]

No, I'm OK with that. I only really care about RAW and will cheerfully play by it, regardless. It doesn't hurt that I do, on occasion, get paid to DM 4e and when people pay money they kind of expect the game to be played by the actual rules. Why keep track of a bunch of different rules for different games when you can just... play by the rules? Seems to work out.

Plus one of the best things I like about 4e is it actually functions without houserules. Having played since first edition I would honestly say it is the first edition to do that.

I totally respect this position. I play differently in my games - if something by RAW seems ridiculous to me and the players, we change it. But sticking strictly to rules as written is a consistent approach.

 

[Dan'L]

Old Weapon Focus was "attacks with a weapon."

This is not true. The old wording for Weapon Focus was "damage rolls made with your chosen weapon group." This is demonstrably not the same as "attack with a weapon" in its syntax, and debatably not the same in its meaning or intent. The RAW is not so clear here as you purport, i.e. to the extent that there is no room for debate.

Mind you, I'm not looking to have that debate here, I'm just noting that there is room for that debate. It's really of a level where it should be handled at the individual table where it's being played, to insure what is most fun for that group. And in convention/store/league-style play with "official" GMs, I've had table variance on things less RAW debatable than this, so please excuse my openness to the rule's debatability.

-Dan'L

And no, it isn't debatable (at least, not by RAW, which is frankly all I care about).

Surely you care about puppies, too?

 

[Hambone]

Rapid Shot (and the other Hunter At-wills for that matter) require ranged basic attacks "with a weapon." I think that a reasonable interpretation of this would preclude RBAs that do not include "weapon" as a keyword (i.e., no Acid Orb w/ dagger implement) Also, it's debatable whether Rapid Shot allows for different RBAs to be used against different targets. And finally, dump-statting Dex would make your Disruptive Shots fairly useless.

-Dan'L

Wait a minute! The quotes around -with a weapon- made me think you were quoting rules text. That, however, is not what Rapid Shot actually says.

Rapid Shot allows you to take a free action to shift two squares "whenever you hit with a melee or ranged attack on your turn". So Rapid Shot says nothing about Weapons nor, surprisingly, about Basic Attacks.

What about switching from Bow/Crossbow to Throwing Hammer or Handaxe on the turns when targeting allies? 8 Strength, 20 Dex, and it's a 6 point swing in Attack bonus and damage. Would it work, and how cheesy is that?

 

[WalterKovacs]

Wait a minute! The quotes around -with a weapon- made me think you were quoting rules text. That, however, is not what Rapid Shot actually says.

Rapid Shot allows you to take a free action to shift two squares "whenever you hit with a melee or ranged attack on your turn". So Rapid Shot says nothing about Weapons nor, surprisingly, about Basic Attacks.

What Rapid Shot (the at-will which allows for the pseudo burst attacks) says that you make a ranged basic attack with a weapon against each creature ...

It's the stance, Aspect of the Cunning Fox, does say whenever you hit or miss with a melee attack or ranged attack on your turn.