D&D 5E Hypervelocity bards (WAS Fixing the bard's action economy (quick suggestion))

[Senshi-shi]

Think about it this way. If you are the DM think does what this player is saying inspire allies, does it insult the enemy, and can he cast another spell.
Answers. Likely, possably, highly unlikely.
Talking is a 'free' action, but they only have 6 second turns so what is said should have to be heard, and understood. not sound like listening to a rapper from across the bar and he's mummbling his words.

 

[Ancalagon]

As long as the general action economy is respected... it is possible to bolster your friends and insult your foes at the same time. "You can crush that idiotic poltroon " etc.

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[cmad1977]

Meh. Nah. I mean I'm sure it's all fine, just seems needless to me.


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[FormerlyHemlock]

Or for those who like more traditional singing:

And yet, as fast as he is talking, it still takes him 4:32 (45 rounds) to make his point. He is 45 times slower than a 5E Bard.

Clearly the idea of hypervelocity persuasion/disruption/etc. from the bard doesn't bother most of the people who responded to this thread, though; that is interesting.

 

[cbwjm]

DnD is a game, I don't need it to be super realistic. All too often I seen people bringing in rules to heighten the realism, which might be fine for them, but I just don't see it as necessary. My group just plays the game, we might comment from time to time on the oddities of things happening, but otherwise we just ignore them and move on.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I have ranted on these boards often enough about the inconsistencies with the Bard's spell focus (whose hands are where?). It simply doesn't work, and what the OP observes is an extension of that. For me, it is completely illusion-breaking, and is why I won't play a musical bard.

(There's plenty of other classes available which do not face these problems).

 

[Ristamar]

I have ranted on these boards often enough about the inconsistencies with the Bard's spell focus (whose hands are where?).

I'd wager most people have the same response to that perceived problem, as well. They just ignore it.

 

[Rune]

Fixing the bard's action economy (quick suggestion)

And yet, as fast as he is talking, it still takes him 4:32 (45 rounds) to make his point. He is 45 times slower than a 5E Bard.

Clearly the idea of hypervelocity persuasion/disruption/etc. from the bard doesn't bother most of the people who responded to this thread, though; that is interesting.

Just one of many suspension-of-disbelief issues created by having a 6-second round. Right up there with inhumanly-fast crossbow-load-times, super-accurate ranged attacks without aiming, and no battle lasting long enough for reinforcements to (plausibly) arrive. My suggestion: use rounds that last 30-60 seconds and adjust spell durations (at least those under 10 minutes) accordingly.

Edit= Also, convert movement speeds as desired (speed per second, half-minute, minute, or whatever).

 

[pming]

Hiya!

By the rules as written, a bard is able to do an absurd number of things with his mouth all at once. He can cast a spell with verbal components and his flute as a magical focus WHILE ALSO composing and reciting an inspiring ditto to bolster his comrades' performance (Bardic Inspiration) WHILE ALSO wittily insulting his opponent's pants in order to distract him (Cutting Words) from Counterspelling the wizard.

This is ridiculous, and it happens because WotC basically pays zero attention to what is physically happening in-game during a combat round, as long as it meets their action economy standards.

But the thought occurs: why not just add the restrictions back in? Bardic Inspiration can go from "as a bonus action" to "as a bonus action and when your mouth is not otherwise occupied in spellcasting or speaking"; Cutting Words can likewise can go from "as a reaction" to "as a reaction to a situation you see developing, if you did not cast a spell with verbal components this round". It weakens bards slightly from a purely mechanistic perspective, but that's a small price to pay for not having an utterly stupid combination of class abilities wrecking everyone's suspension of disbelief and the DM's ability to describe what is actually happening.

The Bard isn't "broken"...the DM is.

Player: "I'll cast Dancing Lights with my flute as a focus, as usual. Oh, and I'm going to use Bardic Action to help out".

DM: "Ok, you start playing your flute. It's a happy little ditty that evokes images of dancing faerries over a calm lake, with small little bursts of energy. Everyone in your group smiles as they remember the song you've regaled them with many times before. Some of the orcs follow the lights down the corridor to your left where you cast them, thinking the lights are more of you guys".

Player: "Hah! Oh, as they go down the corridor I'll use Cutting Words on the last one"

DM: "Hmmm....ok, the tune takes a surprise turn, with a whaaaaauuu... whaauuu, whaaaaahhhh... whaaaaaaaa sort of 'fail song' that you hear on game show's nowadays when someone fails. The last orc understands the tones and shoots your a sharp gaze. He's not impressed and stops, turning around. The others continue on following the lights".

There. Bard "fixed". You're welcome.

As I said...rules aren't broken...DM is. Yes, there are some combinations of things that happen in the game due to RAW. And, as I've said in another thread, when RAW just isn't going to work, casually take off the RAW glasses, reach over, and put on the RAI glasses. Then re-read the rules. Adjudicate as necessary.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I have ranted on these boards often enough about the inconsistencies with the Bard's spell focus (whose hands are where?). It simply doesn't work, and what the OP observes is an extension of that. For me, it is completely illusion-breaking, and is why I won't play a musical bard.

5E allows you to hold a spell focus in the "free hand" with which you're performing a somatic component, if that's what you're alluding to. For a bard, it looks just like playing a musical instrument in real life.