Hypothesis of the Role-playing Gamer Floater

[rpgresearch]

I think that's a big wall of text you've got there.


I find it unlikely that D&D players, or any selective group of hobbyists, are completely "normal". I would expect to see at least a slight elevation in measures of schizotypy or dissociation in people who play an imaginary game as a hobby. I would not be surprised to see an increased prevalence of bipolar disorder or other pathologies common to creative people. However, I do think that the gamer stereotype is very exaggerated, and in general the hobby by its nature promotes mental health, as do most creative and/or social activities.

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Well, prior research kind of agrees, but I think not in the way that you meant.

For example, studies from the 80's and 90's showed that tabletop role-playing gamers had 1/5th to 1/10th the suicide rate of the general population, another study that they had significantly fewer feelings of "meaninglessness" than the general public, and another study that they have fewer feelings of alienation than the general public (college students in that study) though they did experience some external mistreatment from non-gamers. Many studies showed significantly better-than-average social skills and problem solving skills.

There are many, many other examples of studies about tabletop role-playing gamers being average to exceptional, which is generally the opposite of the assumptions a lot of people make about tabletop role-playing gamers.

However, it seems to me the types of gamers I run into now, compared to those in the 80's and early 90's, are of a very different ilk.

The underlying snobbishness has unfortunately been characteristic with ENW from the beginning, but I wonder how that and other more overt forms of trolling interact with this "public" gamer concept.
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From a linkedin comment from one of my studies, related to your statement about people here, Michael Tresca stated (related to my interview regarding using RPG for PTSD at the VA hospital):

"

This is good to see happening. It legitimizes the hobby's standing. Everything conforms to some game theory, and, in that, has some rules to accompany. But it may be a way to oust the Geek gatekeepers who want the hobby to stay in the shadows as a secret society as well and be more inclusicve to different styles of play and new people with examples of applications in real life, like PTSD treatment, language learning, socialization exercises, etc.

Our hobby needs to be opened to more of this."
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[Homicidal_Squirrel]

To reiterate, the long term goal of the over all RPG Research project is to establish the causal effects of role-playing games upon participants (with long-term, controlled studies), but there are many steps prior to that stage, as listed on the front page of the aforementioned website, see numbers 1 through 23 there.

IF I were able to acquire a large enough sample of private gamers for a study, it would most likely be a comparative and/or correlational study comparing between public and private gamers in multiple stages as mentioned earlier. I wouldn't really be implementing a controlled study manipulating the dependent variable, and would not be establishing causality, but it could still be listed in the terms you requested with the following approach if desired.

So one example would be using a version of the Beck Depression Inventory (BDI) or Patient Health Questionnaire (PHQ) and comparing the results between public versus private gamers for statistically significant differences.

Another step would be checking IQ between public versus private, etc.

So, if you wanted to take the approach you requested to measuring, might proceed as follows:
Is their a statistically significant difference in self-reported levels of depression between public gamers versus private gamers?
So, independent variable would be the public gamers versus the private gamers.
The dependent variable would be the level of depression as measured by self-reported scores from BDI or PHQ.

This process would then be repeated for IQ, personality, problem-solving, etc. Looking for any potential differences.

This would also be compared to the earlier 70+ studies performed on gamers against the general population back in the 80's and 90's to look for any potential cohort or other differences. This would not be a longitudinal stage of the studies, and causality would not be established for this particular section.

Did that sufficiently help clarify?

No, that really didn't clarify much. I asked you how you were going to prove a "causal" relation. You have me a large wall of text and no explanation that addresses my question. As for the dependent and independent variables, which ones are you starting with? Which ones are you focusing on?

 

[rpgresearch]

Sorry if you are having trouble understanding.
The multiple causal stages of the project are detailed on the rpgresearch.com website and in multiple essays on the site.
Feel free to peruse the site for such information.
The public/private gamer topic of this forum thread would be a correlation sub-study, and is not one of the causal stages of the overall larger RPG Research project.
Cheers!

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Dude, I barely want to read the wall of text you put up here, why would I want to read giant walls of text on your site, along with essays? It should not be so difficult for you to quickly summarize how you plan on proving a causal relation.

 

[rpgresearch]

The public versus private portion would be a correlative series of studies, not causal studies.
The causal studies are multi-stage, multi-variable, and longitudinal. Thus overall it is a lengthy explanation.
The short version (which leaves out a lot of important details) would include longitudinal studies with people that initially were non-gamers.
They would be baseline tested (IQ, personality, mood, problem-solving, social skills, etc.). There would be multiple variables tracked.
They would then participate in RPG for various lengths of time (one of the experimental variables). Then tested again to look for any delta.
Another group would participate in RPG in different physical surroundings (lighting, tables versus floor, room temperature, etc. (another experimental variable), then tested again for any changes, and compared to other results.
They would participate in RPG in different styles or settings (yet another experimental variable), etc.
There are many others, these are just a few (we are talking about years of research here).
Then they would be tested again, and compared to their baseline, to look for any changes.
If changes are found, compared with the control groups, then potential causality would be indicated, and further iterations of refining studies would take place based on the data.
This is all summed up in bullet-list form on the site, with numbers #1 through #23 of the front page. Which also includes the use of bio-feedback, neuro-feedback, PET, and fMRI scans, etc, as additional measurements.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

I'm not sure whether the following traits fit into your working definition of the stereotype, but I've frequently read WOTC published materials which offer that many gamers have a natural shyness and confidence issues which they might need to overcome for more successful gaming, pointing out that wish-fulfilment in people feeling robbed of power in the real world is a major driver for gaming. Such sources seemed to feel it important to offer advice on getting enough sleep, eating healthy and making sure to take care of basic heigene... It would seem that they have an opinion about the makeup of the average gamer. It costs money to produce that stuff, and I'm left wondering whether that is a confident investment WOtC makes because they feel a large part of their market is dysfunctional/abnormal/adhering to the stereotype. Does this reinforce the stereotype, or was that type so apparent to them they felt the need to offer such embarassing advice in their books? DMGII (3.5) was a good example for some of that stuff, and I know there was more too. I can't remember those sources off the top of my head, but will post them if I come across them.

I have a small group of friends I game with which I met from non-game-related situations, and I guess we'd fit more or less into the proposed normal as defined in terms of your research question. There have been a couple of occasions where I've gamed with groups from gaming stores/societies etc. and certainly have found a number of really odd folk. Some were a bit out-there, but lovely. Others were just... something. Not all of them though. And many of these convention class? gamers, apparently well adjusted or not weren't gaming at the store because they were transient for whatever reason, but because there was no other way to play.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

The public versus private portion would be a correlative series of studies, not causal studies.
The causal studies are multi-stage, multi-variable, and longitudinal. Thus overall it is a lengthy explanation.
The short version (which leaves out a lot of important details) would include longitudinal studies with people that initially were non-gamers.
They would be baseline tested (IQ, personality, mood, problem-solving, social skills, etc.). There would be multiple variables tracked.
They would then participate in RPG for various lengths of time (one of the experimental variables). Then tested again to look for any delta.
Another group would participate in RPG in different physical surroundings (lighting, tables versus floor, room temperature, etc. (another experimental variable), then tested again for any changes, and compared to other results.
They would participate in RPG in different styles or settings (yet another experimental variable), etc.
There are many others, these are just a few (we are talking about years of research here).
Then they would be tested again, and compared to their baseline, to look for any changes.
If changes are found, compared with the control groups, then potential causality would be indicated, and further iterations of refining studies would take place based on the data.
This is all summed up in bullet-list form on the site, with numbers #1 through #23 of the front page. Which also includes the use of bio-feedback, neuro-feedback, PET, and fMRI scans, etc, as additional measurements.

While interesting, the type is research you have suggested does not lead to the demonstration of a csusal relation. You'll have a lot of interesting data. You may Find some interesting correlations.

 

[rpgresearch]

While interesting, the type is research you have suggested does not lead to the demonstration of a causal relation. You'll have a lot of interesting data. You may Find some interesting correlations.

The research related to this forum thread's topic was always only intended to find correlation.

The causality mentioned was only an aside regarding the greater overarching projects, pointing out other studies I have in the queue, some that have already undergone some university review, which will clearly establish causality in other areas, but those are not related to this thread.

Homicidal_Squirrel, I hope your confusion is finally resolved, and this thread may continue on topic. Thank you.

I'm not sure whether the following traits fit into your working definition of the stereotype, but I've frequently read WOTC published materials which offer that many gamers have a natural shyness and confidence issues which they might need to overcome for more successful gaming, pointing out that wish-fulfilment in people feeling robbed of power in the real world is a major driver for gaming. Such sources seemed to feel it important to offer advice on getting enough sleep, eating healthy and making sure to take care of basic heigene... It would seem that they have an opinion about the makeup of the average gamer. It costs money to produce that stuff, and I'm left wondering whether that is a confident investment WOtC makes because they feel a large part of their market is dysfunctional/abnormal/adhering to the stereotype. Does this reinforce the stereotype, or was that type so apparent to them they felt the need to offer such embarassing advice in their books? DMGII (3.5) was a good example for some of that stuff, and I know there was more too. I can't remember those sources off the top of my head, but will post them if I come across them.

I have a small group of friends I game with which I met from non-game-related situations, and I guess we'd fit more or less into the proposed normal as defined in terms of your research question. There have been a couple of occasions where I've gamed with groups from gaming stores/societies etc. and certainly have found a number of really odd folk. Some were a bit out-there, but lovely. Others were just... something. Not all of them though. And many of these convention class? gamers, apparently well adjusted or not weren't gaming at the store because they were transient for whatever reason, but because there was no other way to play.

Thank you Dwimmerlied for your very useful response. Those are some great points, and please do let me know if you find those specific references. I think I've seen some of those that you refer to as well.

Also your posting of experiences and observations are exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you very much.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

The research related to this forum thread's topic was always only intended to find correlation.

The causality mentioned was only an aside regarding the greater overarching projects, pointing out other studies I have in the queue, some that have already undergone some university review, which will clearly establish causality in other areas, but those are not related to this thread.

Homicidal_Squirrel, I hope your confusion is finally resolved, and this thread may continue on topic. Thank you.

Not at all. You keep saying that your going to demonstrate casualty, but it appears that you don't understand how research, at least in the field of psychology, works and what it is capable of demonstrating.

 

[rpgresearch]

Not at all. You keep saying that your going to demonstrate casualty, but it appears that you don't understand how research, at least in the field of psychology, works and what it is capable of demonstrating.

Well, lets just agree to disagree, I believe you are mistaken in your assertion, you believe otherwise. Meanwhile, back to the original topic of this thread.

Another poster's example of on topic response:

Originally Posted by heilel

Speaking from personal experience:

I have moved a few times over the last 15 years I guess, so I have formed gaming groups repeatedly and recruited people via various forums and game search sites.

The current group I run games for is just 2 players, who are friends with each other and I met them through another Roleplayer friend.
They are both married with kids, jobs etc and seem stable enough.

My previous group in the UK I also formed via recruiting sites etc..
There was an older male/Female couple who were pretty nice people and stable/functional enough.
2 other men, both divorcees, but both had older teenager kids who they still had a lot to do with. Actually they brought their kids sometimes to gaming sessions and conventions.
3 other single males, ranging from mid 20s to mid 30s.
One of them was pretty nerdy, but hardly dysfunctional.
The other 2 seemed very social and often talked about other non-rpg hobbies and generally seemed to have a fairly balanced life with a home, job , family etc.

Myself, I'm, married with kids, have a job, house and generally pretty social inside and outside RPG circles.

I would not say any of the players I ran games for in these groups had mental health issues, sure sometimes they complained about everyday stresses and stuff, but nothing that serious.

I went to a gaming convention not that long ago.
There was roughly a 50/50 split between males and females and whilst there were some very interesting characters there, some quite odd I suppose, but in general I felt welcomed there.
I even brought my kids who were treated in a very welcoming manner.

At some quite large RPG conventions I've been to, I've seen and met quite a few VERY strange people, some I definitely avoided.
but I don't think I particularly encountered any more in the recent large conventions that the ones I went to in the 80s and 90s.

This is just my personal experiences, so I'm not claiming that my experiences or views are an accurate representation of the RPG community demographic.