I enjoy clerics without gods

[ConcreteBuddha]

Now I have a problem with godless cleric. Since they don't beleive in anything greater than them

They don't?

but that someone gain spell from the energy that is broadcasted by the travelling people or by all the nurses and doctor healing people is a bit far fetched

That someone gains power from little clouds that dance around of their own accord and channels them into rivers of metal that guide these ethereal fairies into boxes of glass and blacksmithing so that the fairies can dance and give off a lightshow is a bit far-fetched.


Or in other words: a computer monitor is silly, is it not?

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

I see divine magic is being as governed as much by rules and laws as arcane magic.

Devil's advocate: What about Chaos? Is magic governed by "rules" and "law" on the plane of Limbo?

Minor nitpick. Not really important, of course.

 

[DarkMaster]

They don't?



That someone gains power from little clouds that dance around of their own accord and channels them into rivers of metal that guide these ethereal fairies into boxes of glass and blacksmithing so that the fairies can dance and give off a lightshow is a bit far-fetched.


Or in other words: a computer monitor is silly, is it not?

Nice metaphor but I am sorry I don't see the relevance here.

 

[Majere]

Of course
Our current level 18 Cleric in our high level group believe he is infact a godling. And thus worships himslef, and has been busy collecting enough gold to build some temples. Given the number of times he ressed me, my high level rogue isnt arguing.

Majere

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Nice metaphor but I am sorry I don't see the relevance here.

You said:

but that someone gain spell from the energy that is broadcasted by the travelling people or by all the nurses and doctor healing people is a bit far fetched

Doesn't that describe one of the possible relationships between a god and their followers? Isn't it possible that the god of travel gains power from the energy that is broadcasted by the traveling people, namely their worship?
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The relevance of my post is that electrons are as equally a silly idea as godless clerics when described in a certain manner.

Just because an idea is "far-fetched" does not mean that it is invalid. I personally think that hit points, experience points, spells, dragons, oozes, and anything else in the game is far-fetched.

How are godless clerics any more implausible than these concepts?

 

[Hawkshere]

I find it very interesting that Eberron is moving back in this direction of obscuring the connection between the divine caster and the divine source. One the one hand, the setting emphasizes a scientific flavor of arcane magic, and on the other hand it is trying to re-mystify divine magic. Members of the Dark Six pantheon don't have personifying proper names (going by titles instead), and their worshipers resemble mystery cults more than traditional D&D fantasy temples. The Silver Flame is a profoundly abstract and non-human divine force - it exerts power in the world through it's followers, but does not truly understand it's followers. Thus, it is possible for corruption to exist within the Church of the Silver Flame, even among the true clerics capable of divine magic. Keith Baker is quoted on Jonny O'Neal's Eberron fansite:

[While clerics in Eberron can worship concepts or primal forces rather than gods,] there's no such thing as a cleric who doesn't believe in anything but happens to get spells. If a cleric wants a particular set of domains, he's going to have to be able to justify his personal beliefs and how these domains apply to them... and the DM can always reject the concept or penalize the cleric for failing to live up to his beliefs.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

I like Godless Clerics.

Why?

I just do.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

That one paragraph has made me want to check out Eberron.

 

[Hawkshere]

More Baker quotes on Eberron's divine magic that I like a lot...

Regarding the prelate of the Church of the Silver Flame:

At 16th level, even she can't perform a true resurrection, and you can't just show up, toss a few thousand gold pieces at her, and expect her to raise your buddy, any more than you could expect the Pope to perform your wedding (especially if you are, say, a Zoroastrian). Raising people from the dead is a major divine miracle, and not something as simple as buying a nice suit of platemail. And since most priests are adepts -- if not experts -- finding someone who can perform major clerical magic can be a challenge.

More riffing on the topic of ressurection:

Eberron does not change the mechanics of the core rules, it just adds some things over the top. However, we are trying to change the way divine magic is perceived. Arcane magic is in some ways a science. But divine magic is about faith and miracles, and people are a little less blase about it... Raise dead is uncommon, and resurrection rarer still. I'm not going to discuss cosmology or death right now, but the short form is that there are few priests of sufficient level to cast these spells, and doing so is a serious religious decision -- it would be rare to find a priest with this level of power who would be willing to perform such a miracle for a mere purse of gold.

Whatever one thinks of Eberron as a product, I think design ideas like this have a lot of merit.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

To my way of thinking, D&D approaches most things as a metric of personal power.

In that sense, then, a cleric's spellcasting ability depends upon their own capabilities; the system of the game codifies such things into separate levels and numbers of spells per day, but in the gameworld itself characters understand that (to use an example from my campaign mentioned earlier) the World Mother does not limit the amount of power Her mortal servants may utilise in Her name; rather, Her servants are limited in their ability to tap the bottomless well of magic She offers them.

Confusing the fact that most D&D characters advance primarily through combat with a false sense of a requirement that they do so helps no-one. Increasing in personal potency - gaining levels - happens through great deeds, overcoming challenges and whatnot - which can include the XP derived from combat.