I have a confession - I am a rat bastard DM!

[cmanos]

If a player chooses a new character...wheterh through death or retirement, I, as the DM retain the right to do whatever I want with that character. The player was told this when the character was ressurected. He had his choiuce, he made the choice. PC's are not IP of the players.

I love the plot you're throwing at them.

Now, the question is, what resources does Demitri have on his side of things?

Want to hear how this pans out!!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I know the player was using mainly his orc character, but his other character is still his. PCs don't sudenly become JCs.

There is no "mainly". You use one character, and if you suddenly abandon a perfectly fine character for another, the old one's donkey belongs to the DM.

Happened to me, too: I felt like switching characters, but I don't turn old characters into suicide bombers if I want another character, so after we scored a major victory and ousted a demagogue from his position as ruler of a sizable city, I decided that my character (a spellsinger) remained behind, in the guise of the old ruler (his demise was not helped along in full view of the public, so they didn't know yet), to calm things down in the city, and started a new character.

The final mission in that campaign consisted of getting said spellsinger out of the cells beneath a Thayan Fortress.


Sure, the guy didn't suddenly turn against us, but still, he was treated quite roughly in the Red Wizards' guest chambers and I knew I couldn't just demand that we play the abduction scene with me in control of my old character, or demand informations about the abduction because "my old character knows".

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Oh my. This reminds me: One of my players recently changed his character, too. The old one is a former Red Wizard who abandoned his studies when he saw just how evil they are. After that, he ran around in green robes to show that he did a u-turn, but those tattoos stayed on his scalpt.

He even shopped in the Thayan Enclave in waterdeep once, and the red wizards recognized him for what he was. I was already planning to have "his past return to haunt him" when he changed characters.

But I think I follow your example and pit them against their former comrade.

 

[shilsen]

You can do a Darth Vader thing with him.

DM: Vader reaches up and removes his helmet. You see a very familiar face. "Luke, I am your ... former PC!"

Luke: Noooooooooooo.....

 

[Allandaros]

...good line point awarded to Shilsen.

 

[Pbartender]

Demetri would become a GREAT on-going villain if he manages to survive this encounter. You might want to give him an escape route.

Our worst enemy is the one who used to be "one of us."

You can do a Darth Vader thing with him. Have him loyally serve the BBEG, being the one the PCs usually encounter rather than the BBEG himself. As it gets close to the final battle, give Demetri some opportunities to redeem himself, but let the character's actions heavily sway him, so essentially they determine whether he is at the last battle fighting with them or against them.

To build on this -- if you really want to be a bit Rat Bastardly -- here's what you do...

"Now my apprentice the time has come for you to prove your loyalty to me. Your former companions are approaching. Kill them. Kill them all."

What happens next is very much up in the air - but it will involve a fight, and a bloody one. Demetri is very much in Triel's thrall - addicted to the secrets he's been shown so far of magic, feeling betrayed and abandoned by his companions who left without him.

But... Demitri has a change of heart and turns on his seductress, who promptly and viscously wounds Demitri (but does not kill him) and then escapes at all cost.

Now, with a little luck, the players take pity on Demitri -- who will put up an appropriate show of contrition -- and allow him to rejoin the party as an NPC, or at least stay in touch with him as a usual contact and informant. Triel can now use Demitri as an inside agent, spying on the PCs' actions and whereabouts, and use him to feed them misinformation about whatever quest they happen to on.

Eventually, after he's thoroughly regained the trust of the party, he can lead them into a deadly trap or ambush. In the end it all falls to Demitri... He's in the position to save his old friends from certain death and destroy Triel, or he can let them die at the hands of his mistress. The PCs only really have a good chance of succeeding if Demitri helps them, he's wavering and struggling between two different loyalities and two different betrayals, and it's up to the PCs to convince him come back to their side... But how can they possibly trust him this time?

 

[Merkuri]

The PCs only really have a good chance of succeeding if Demitri helps them, he's wavering and struggling between two different loyalities and two different betrayals, and it's up to the PCs to convince him come back to their side... But how can they possibly trust him this time?

I don't really like this... it seems to hang too much on Demitri's internal struggles. In my Darth Vader-esque scenario, the PCs know he's not on their side and they might actively try to win him back (whether they do or not is up to the party). In your scenario, they think he's going to help them, so they probably won't spend any effort trying to persuade him. You're sort of secretly giving the players a test to see if they're nice to their NPCs, and if they don't treat him spectacularly he's going to betray them (which he's already leaning towards) and doom them to failure.

I just don't think this gives the PCs enough of a chance to turn things around. They don't know "things" are facing the wrong way.

 

[Pbartender]

In your scenario, they think he's going to help them, so they probably won't spend any effort trying to persuade him.

Oh no... you misunderstand. It should be blatantly obvious, once the trap is sprung, who led them into it -- Demitri. But when it comes down to Demitri actually following through and killing off his former comrades, he's obviously (and MAKE it obvious to the players and PCs) having second thoughts. At that point, whatever the PCs say to Demitri determines whether they get to fight against Dmitri AND Triel together, against Triel alone with Demitri sitting out, or against Triel with Demitri on their side.

The less they convince Demitri, the more difficult the battle is going to be.

We don't want the encounter solely riding on them redeeming Demitri, but it should make a vast, vast difference in the likelihood of a positive outcome.

Does that make more sense?

 

[Merkuri]

Does that make more sense?

I guess so, but I still like my idea better.

I'm interested to hear what the OP thinks.

 

[Scribble]

Awesome. I love it.

I've found nothing makes a better, more hated by the PCs enemy then a former friend.