Pathfinder 1E I think our party's sorcerer just got overpowered...what do you think?

[Sekhmet]

At level 20, with no bonus spells at all, the Sorcerer would have 270 spell levels to throw about wherever he liked.
What this translates to is about 30 level 9 spells, 58 level 3 spells (my favorite spell level), or any variety of numbers or mismatched groupings.

The Psions have an attempt at balance by forcing players to spend more points to make their spells more powerful, something that Wizards and Sorcerers do just by being a higher level, and even further balanced by restricting the number of spells they get to learn, period.

I don't think the Sorcerer spell list lends itself to the level of flexibility inherent in "Spell Point" play.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Chipping in with the "bad idea" in the long run, though I get where he's coming from. Way back in 3.5, I let the part Sorcerer take a homebrew prestige class that, at 1st level (for the class), let me use two spell slots for one higher. So, he could spend two level 3 slots on a level 4, or four level 3's on a level 5, etc. It helped him out more than a few times, but it can get costly, fast. It worked well for us; but, none of us tried to break the system (though that player did pick powerful spells), and we were all core books (which gets rid of a lot of bad stuff, too). Just thought I'd chip in. As always, play what you like

 

[Herobizkit]

Following @JamesonCourage 's post, I recall that a class feature (maybe a feat? I don't exactly remember) of one of the casters in Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved "Alternate Player's Guide" could do exactly that - they could trade up 3 spell slots of a lower level for that of one higher... they could also do the reverse, getting two lower slots for every one higher.

Also, the system has heightened and diminished versions of spells that you could cast if you burned more/used less spell slots to cast, much like Psionics.

It's an elegant system. Psionics (for me) was everything D&D wizards pre-Pathfinder should have been, and Arcana Evolved/Unearthed does a great job of emulating that system.

 

[Empirate]

OP, your Sorcerer player is blatantly being a munchkin. "Not enough high-level slots", especially referring to Sorcerers, is ridiculous. Maybe it's time to conserve a slot from time to time? Maybe he's not allowed to just burn everything with his most powerful spells for a reason? Sorcerers get so many spell slots/day that you'd be hard pressed to power through all of them in a given adventuring day (except at the lowest levels) - but your most powerful magic is (and should be) a little more limited.

"Suck it up, munchkin" is really the only appropriate response here. Also, your DM hasn't the first idea about game balance whatsoever, and ought to begin thinking rules changes like this through for some time before just applying them on the fly.

 

[the Jester]

I do kinda like the idea of sorcerers getting bonus metamagic feats though; that gives him something for using a higher level slot.

(I really like how the 5e playtest material just builds in higher level slot selection to the spells themselves.)

 

[Mordikenn]

I have an alternate rule I use in my games that makes spellcasters easier to play like that, but is far more mathematically balanced than straight spell levels. You have to make higher level spells cost more or it gets ridiculous. There's a lot of playtesting behind this, and I'm still not 100% sure about the cutoff for higher level spells but it has worked well for us in my game.

Spell Points:
Spells are not memorized, but instead drawn from a pool of mana possessed by the caster. Your spell points are equal to the total of the levels of all your spell slots. For example a 4^th level sorcerer gets 6 0^th level spells, 6 1^st level spells, and 3 2^nd level spell slots. This translates to 12 SP ( 6x0 + 6x1 + 3x2 ). Whenever he wishes to cast a spell he must pay SP equal to that (spell’s level x2 -1).

Spells of a higher level cost more spell points, using a different multiplier to figure out their cost to cast. Otherwise, the rules for them are the same. Use the following chart:
1^st to 5^th level spell: Spell Level x2 -1
6^th to 9^th level spell: Spell Level x3 -1

0^th level spell: 0sp (free)
1^st level spell: 1sp
2^nd level spell: 3sp
3^rd level spell: 5sp
4^th level spell: 7sp
5^th level spell: 9sp
6^th level spell: 17sp
7^th level spell: 20sp
8^th level spell: 23sp
9^th level spell: 26sp

Clerics and Druids function slightly differently with this system, as they never had to choose a list of spells they knew. Now you must choose a list of ‘spells known’ equal to the number of spells you could cast every day for each spell level using the same rules as a sorcerer for spells known. You automatically know your domain spells for each level without having to count them towards your total. If you can spontaneously cast a spell, such as spontaneously casting cure spells, they are added to your list of spells known automatically.

Under this system, Sorcerers and anyone else who normally cast spontaneously no longer suffer any penalty for using metamagic feats to modify their spells and may use quicken spell as normal.

 

[Jester David]

Check out the spell point system from Unearthed Arcana, also available on the SRD. This has the rules for said flexible spellcasting with some additional other limits and tweaks.

I theory the sorcerer can cast the same numer or even more spells. But, in practice, the sorcerer will cast fewer total spells but they'll all be higher level.

 

[Manbearcat]

Your fellow player's idea (and your DM's shortsighted agreement with him) is predicated upon a linear scaling of spell level power. That is just not true. Over the course of spell levels gained throughout an adventuring career a caster will have deranged step changes, plateaus, and then further step changes in power level. Although access to level 2 spells gives exceptional power, it pales in comparison to level 3 spells as there are multiple game-changers there. That is, until you get an absurd number of 2nd level slots and learned spells...then access to tons of 2nd level spells per day becomes a huge game-changer. Its actually more akin to physical fitness training; establishing a new weight set point/body-mass-index, hitting a wall for 6 months, and then establishing another new weight set point/body-mass-index.

What's more, there are stupidly large swings in power between same-level spells. In total, this is an extraordinarily bad idea. Simple math does not model primary casters power gains by spell level at all.

 

[Palha]

Thanks for all this great information everybody! I am passing along all this info, as he is very interested. We both want to avoid the munchkinism as much as possible. I must admit, at one time I was about optimizing my PCs, but now I look for the most RP flavor characteristics, so I'm not blaming him for being power hungry as its his first "real" table top rpg (ie, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt lol).

 

[Alzrius]

One of my favorite third-party supplements puts forth the idea that it takes two spells of level X to equal one spell of level X+1. That's an in-character way of treating magical energy, but if subscribed to, it's a good reason not to allow what your sorcerer is asking for.

I agree with everyone here that the sorcerer that can simply subtract from his total spell levels is probably too powerful. If he wants greater flexibility there are ways to get it, but this way seems to invite abuse.