I watched the whole thing

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

like anything else you have to prove your case. We are talking about a film, so unlike the earth being riund, which is a scientific fact,

I disagree.

this is an aesthetic issue so the consensus of viewers and critics is a factor that needs to be considered. You have made several claims and pronouncements, but haven't supported any of them.

Alright, I'll give you one example of how bad the movie is. Pacino's character has a blonde girlfriend at the start of the movie. It appears that he is still dating her when he kills the drug dealer. Pacino has to flee the country. He meets the Sicilian girl, marries her, watches her get blown up in a car, runs back to the U.S. and gets back together with the blonde girl. What the hell is that?

I like the movie because i think it is well shot, well acted (despite what you state), was groundbreaking for the genre at the time, makes excellent use of music and because I find the characters very compelling. I also think the movie has a lot of mythic resonance. It has a 100% fresh rating, is beloved by critics, has hugely influenced films that followed (even outside its genre) and is one of the most well known movies of all time.

People make mistakes. Some times a lot of people make similar mistakes.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I disagree.
Alright, I'll give you one example of how bad the movie is. Pacino's character has a blonde girlfriend at the start of the movie. It appears that he is still dating her when he kills the drug dealer. Pacino has to flee the country. He meets the Sicilian girl, marries her, watches her get blown up in a car, runs back to the U.S. and gets back together with the blonde girl. What the hell is that?
.

I dont know why you had trouble with that. Can you elaborate because so am not sure which part you want explained. It is a very important plot point because Apollonia (read sun) is basically his true love (what he has Kay, the blonde woman, is different in my opinion, she is a WASP but Apollonia is Sicilian and there is more of a cultural connection). The series is about michael's descent into evil and the death of Apollonia signifies the death of what is good in him. There is also a lot of time elapsing over these events so it isn't like he runs back to Kay the next week. In the first movie he is the archangel Michael staving off the rebellion against God, by the second movie he is turning into lucifer.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I
People make mistakes. Some times a lot of people make similar mistakes.

That doesn't mean they are mistaken in this case and I don't think you can dismiss public opinion toward a piece of art over such a long period of time. Movies are made to be enjoyed by people, to enrich their lives and to resonate. If a film succeeds in doing this to the point that it consistently has 90% or more favor ability with viewers and with critics, I would argue that is strong evidence it is a good movie.

 

[sabrinathecat]

As I've mentioned before, I think the Godfather is a highly over-rated movie. I sat through the first one wondering why I should care about any of these characters. I can only guess that the people who review it positively have a completely different cultural view-point from me. I don't understand the praise or the interest. Mob movies generally do very little for me. A clever criminal movie might work, but two families of mobsters, not so much.
Then again, I do not enjoy watching TV shows that seem to bask in bathing in human sewage and claiming to be drama. But these very shows seem to be incredibly popular: Game of Thrones, US version of House of Cards, The Wire, Breaking Bad, and The Borges are perfect examples. Someone watches these, but they don't interest me at all. (US House of Cards is a mild curiosity, but just to see how they handle the story differently from the original UK version, but US version is distinctly inferior in every respect)

Other movies are considered cultural icons, but I think they're pretty over-rated. The Graduate and 2001:A Space Odyssey both spring to mind. Sure, they might have been interesting at the time, but were they all that good? meh.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I dont know why you had trouble with that. Can you elaborate because so am not sure which part you want explained. It is a very important plot point because Apollonia (read sun) is basically his true love (what he has Kay, the blonde woman, is different in my opinion, she is a WASP but Apollonia is Sicilian and there is more of a cultural connection).

Okay, let's say Appollonia was the love of his life. Why does he go back to Blondy? There is nothing that makes it seem plausible. He doesn't appear to care for her. Why marry her? Even Appllonia didn't seem that important. Quite honestly, I don't even see why as a viewer of this terrible movie, I should care about Apollonia or the blonde girl. They're just there as furnishings.

The series is about michael's descent into evil and the death of Apollonia signifies the death of what is good in him.

I disagree. He looked pretty bad before she was killed. He shot the cop and the other maffia guy in the head before he even met her. He threatened the girls father with killing him if he didn't bring the girl out so he could meet her. What the hell is good about that?

There is also a lot of time elapsing over these events so it isn't like he runs back to Kay the
next week.

Well, in that case, that's a point against the movie being well shot. I didn't get the feeling that it took any significant amount of time.Considering how insufferably long the damn thing is, you think they'd be able give you a feeling of time passing by.

In the first movie he is the archangel Michael staving off the rebellion against God, by the second movie he is turning into lucifer.

Damn, I forgot there were two other parts to this crime against humanity.

Okay, so another example of the terribleness of this movie. They all kept on talking about how the other families didn't want an all out war on the streets. So what do they do? They kill Caan's character on the streets... with 10 guys emptying their tommy guns into his car... at the entrance to a highway... where a a lot of people go by. That was just stupid. Even Brando's character gets shot right in the middle of a busy street market. What the hell? What do these idiots consider war on the streets?

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

As I've mentioned before, I think the Godfather is a highly over-rated movie. I sat through the first one wondering why I should care about any of these characters. I can only guess that the people who review it positively have a completely different cultural view-point from me. I don't understand the praise or the interest. Mob movies generally do very little for me. A clever criminal movie might work, but two families of mobsters, not so much.

Exactly.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Okay, let's say Appollonia was the love of his life. Why does he go back to Blondy? There is nothing that makes it seem plausible. He doesn't appear to care for her. Why marry her? Even Appllonia didn't seem that important. Quite honestly, I don't even see why as a viewer of this terrible movie, I should care about Apollonia or the blonde girl. They're just there as furnishings.

Kay is Michael's attempt to assimilate. this is a movie about italian immigrants and at the start of the movie Michael is not like the rest of his family, he is trying to be a regular American, that is why he joined the army and that is why he brought white protestant Kay to the wedding. Kay is furnishing in a way, just like his uniform is furnishing. The scene where he connects back with her, is one where he is expressing interest in turning his father's enterprise into a legitimate business. But all that aside, she is pretty and they used to date. He wants to start a family. After losing Apollonia he isn't interested in finding love. He is interested in finding a wife to raise his kids.

I disagree. He looked pretty bad before she was killed. He shot the cop and the other maffia guy in the head before he even met her. He threatened the girls father with killing him if he didn't bring the girl out so he could meet her. What the hell is good about that?

He is an antihero. Over the course of the movie he grows more and more evil. The cop he killed was crooked, and Sollozzo was behind Michael's father being shot. This was a mob war and he was doing what had to be done for his family to survive. Not good deeds, but far from the evil he sinks to in part II where (spoilers) he kills his own brother. It is pretty obvious to me much of his descent is cemented by the death of Apollonia (her name is a pretty big hint).

Well, in that case, that's a point against the movie being well shot. I didn't get the feeling that it took any significant amount of time.Considering how insufferably long the damn thing is, you think they'd be able give you a feeling of time passing by.
Damn, I forgot there were two other parts to this crime against humanity.

It seemed pretty clear to me.

Okay, so another example of the terribleness of this movie. They all kept on talking about how the other families didn't want an all out war on the streets. So what do they do? They kill Caan's character on the streets... with 10 guys emptying their tommy guns into his car... at the entrance to a highway... where a a lot of people go by. That was just stupid. Even Brando's character gets shot right in the middle of a busy street market. What the hell? What do these idiots consider war on the streets?

I would have to watch it again to address that point, since i don't recall the details of them saying that. But i think the point is the conflict just keeps escalating beyond what anyone wants it to be. When they say all out war, I think they are talking about going to the mattresses, and pretty sure by the time Sonny gets killed they are pretty deep in that.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Exactly.

You both make reasonable points for why you don't like the film. But all you are convincing me of is that you don't like The Godfather, not that the Godfather is a bad movie.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Dear Kitten,

Humans will occasionally get in arguments about the subjective and objective merits of things they call "art." When they do this, they will often ignore you. You must learn to use his to your advantage.

During these discussions, do not attempt to distract them with your cuteness. Even if you succeed, you will be choosing the less favorable option.

Instead, you must seek to find comfortable laps or idly dangling hands. When you succeed, they will often absentmindedly scratch ears and bellies for as long as the discussion lasts. Bliss.

 

[sabrinathecat]

I would argue the whole mythic thing. Maybe you found it, but is it universal? Don't think so.
Let's counter-example: Star Wars. Great movie? Well, for the time, certainly. Holds up pretty well, too. Story was very simplistic, but extremely influential style and cross genre references, and just about all the other claims to fame mentioned for Godfather. Mythic: certainly (even if GL didn't run into Joseph Campbell's work until well into working on ESB). I don't think there's anyone who can't access the mythology of Star Wars.
Mythic: Godfather? Well... you are the first and only person I've ever heard mention this. (not that you can't be right, but does seem strange). And is it universally accepted? Or broadly accepted? I have no idea. However, I had no sense of mythic journey while watching the movie. I have doubts. Don't know how broad a net has to be cast for the movie to seem Mythic.
Smarta$$ comment: that The Godfather is a good movie seems to be a popular myth.

So, I have an open question: why should we care what happens to any of the characters in the Godfather? What main character is there that we can possibly identify with?

BTW: I just found out about that ad this weekend, and thought it was hilarious.