Internet Saved the Tabletop Genre

[Festivus]

We already have a WoW-like experience with D&D classes, races, and monsters: D&D Online, by Turbine. That's a whole other topic. I'd just like D&D to offer--in addition to hardcover books--well designed online tools with polished interfaces.

That I can agree with. The one thign I don't get with Heroforge is immediacy of new books in the software. For something like this to work (free or pay) it would have to be available the same day that new book hit the shelves.

Assume that any person has a finite entertainment budget, in terms of both dollars and time. Those seven million WoW players are each spending $15/month, plus (on average) 20 hours per week. Those are big drains on the limited budget, leaving few dollars and hours for D&D.

More and more people prefer MMORPGs because you do more stuff in less time. In a four-hour D&D session, you might get into four fights and advance 1/4 of a level. In the same amount of time in an MMORPG, you've accomplished a dozen quests, gotten into hundreds of fights, and advanced at least 1, probably 2 or 3 levels.

I state the above not to get into a debate over whether MMORPGs or TT RPGs are objectively "better", but to suggest that people prefer to spend time *playing* rather than flipping through books and deciphering rules.

So keep the hard-bound books for bathroom reading. But give players polished tools that remove the burden of busywork, allowing them to spend more time on actual gameplay.

I'm going to out on a limb and guess that the dwindling cadre of old-school gamers--the same guys that ranted against the debut of 3E--will reflexively reject any hint that WotC might offer online options for players. That's fine. To survive (and grow!), D&D needs to attract new customers. The easiest way to do that is to present the game in a way that's familiar and user-friendly.

-z

To me, they are apple and orange. MMORPGs are great for what they offer, instant gratification and lots of encounters and loot to improve your character... but typically very story light, and certainly nothing earth changing can happen in them (I look no further than awakening the sleeper in Everquest as my example of how this doesn't work in an MMORPG). If your character dies, you respawn, no big deal. I can barely remember the quests that took place in order to gain my epic bardic sword in EQ. I played Everquest for almost 3 years, and did lots of stuff, almost none of which I can remember... but it was always missing something for me.

For what I crave, my character is part of a team that saved the world from certain doom or die trying. These stories take a long time to resolve, and are quite memorable. I can still remember when my character first met up with the current group of adventurers, and my characters long, slow slide into the maddening realms of death and necromancy. Much more story centric and not centered on level or item advancement. This is my preferred gaming method today, I don't see ever going back to MMORPGs.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that the game is overly complex and probably tends to push away newcomers just based on it's complexity. Technology will help that, heck I use it now with Fantasy Grounds and Ventrilo, but it's still not quite as good as getting around the table and playing the game, to me anyhow.

 

[Zaruthustran]

To me, they are apple and orange.

Totally agree from a playing experience point of view. D&D and WoW don't compete for the same Experience satisfaction, but they do compete for the same pool of limited resources.

Say you work a 9-5, M-F job. You've got about 60 hours of free time per week. You can spend that however you want. If WoW takes up 20 hours, that leaves only 40 hours for your kids, your mate, movies, TV, D&D, working on your house, cooking, eating, whatever. All those leisure activities satisfy different needs but they all consume the same thing: hours.

I brought up WoW not to say that its better or worse or the same as D&D, but to say that many people choose to spend their limited hours on that experience because it's a more efficient use of entertainment time. In a typical 4-hour D&D session, how much time is spent actually playing? Cut out looking up spells, computing your character sheet, leveling up your guy, and most of all designing dungeons on paper, and you've got... what, 30 minutes of actual play per hour at the table? 45?

One could argue that flipping through rule books and arguing is an essential part of D&D. That's fine, people who like that sort of thing can keep playing that way. But I'd much rather use an online tool to take away as much BS work as possible, so my buddies and I can spend our most precious resource--time--in the most enjoyable way possible.

-z

 

[woodelf]

As for licensed property, I'm just talking WotC here. Third-party would be out of luck for the online version. Not that big a deal, at least from this player's perspective. Maybe a new revenue stream for WotC would be licensing out access to what is essentially an online RPG platform; they can work out some kind of rev share with the third party guys in the same way Ubisoft pays Sony a license fee for each PlayStation game they sell.

-z

Hey, if i'm gonna play, much less run, a game as complex as most versions of D20 System, i'd love something like this--provided it's customizable. Not only must it be possible to handle new classes/feats/races/spells, but i want even more control/options. Namely, WotC-only ain't gonna do it for me, 'cause the only WotC books that i use in my D&D game are Magic of Incarnum and Tome of Magic (specifically the pact magic). So i'd want to be able to tell it (or easily program it, or buy an add-on to reprogram it) to use Arcana Evolved or Iron Heroes or maybe even Everquest D20 as the base rules--'cause that's what i use when i want to run a D&D game.

And, personally, i think it'll be a long time before playing online is a substitute for playing face-to-face--part of what i like about RPGs is the 3-layered communication that surrounds them, and a lot of that includes things like visual cues, so until everyone can do some sort of videoconferencing, along with the virtual whiteboard and so on, it just isn't gonna cut it for me.

 

[Shades of Green]

And waht would be the cost of such a service? 30.00 a month like some online games. No thanks. I'll have a book for 30.00 I cn use till my dying day, thanks.

I second that - not everyone has the money for prolonged subscriptions; such a system will also turn away the causual gamers who don't want to invest massive amount of money into their occasional passtime.

Also, you can't compete with computer games and MMORPGs on their own turf. One of the advantages of D&D (and all other P&P RPGs) is that they use the best hardware in existance, and also the hardware you get for free when you're born - your imagination. Trying to turn D&D into an MMORPG will probably mean that it will be eaten alive by WoW and ts likes.

 

[Hussar]

Ok, as a long time player and DM on OpenRPG, I'm going to tell you that playing on a VTT (Virtual Table Top) takes second fiddle to nothing. My game is every bit as rich and varied as any face to face game. This idea that D&D is best when played around a table is pure bunk. The VTT software out there is robust enough that playing over the net can be every bit as good and sometimes better than in person.

What VTT doesn't have right now is any sort of support from the publishers. I'd love to see WOTC's new Digital Initiative spawn a VTT that is fully supported. An online library that I can search through of all WOTC's books would be something I'd pay a subscription for. Why it would be 30 bucks a month I have no idea. For something like OpenRPG wedded to PCGen and a few other bells and whistles, I'm thinking 5 bucks a month. Ten at the absolute outside. Considering coding a bunch of html pages is somewhat easier and cheaper than trying to develop a MMORPG, I can't see it going for more than that.

 

[WayneLigon]

I'm going to out on a limb and guess that the dwindling cadre of old-school gamers--the same guys that ranted against the debut of 3E--will reflexively reject any hint that WotC might offer online options for players. That's fine. To survive (and grow!), D&D needs to attract new customers. The easiest way to do that is to present the game in a way that's familiar and user-friendly.

I understand a lot of what you're saying and some computerized tools would be very nice. I don't think we'll be seeing them anytime soon. Maybe ever.

1. As has been said before, WoTC have editors, writers, and game designers on staff, not programmers. I doubt they will add any, either. I have no idea what a WoC game designer pulls down a year, but I'd be willing to bet that the kid coming out of a decent IS program is going to want at least 1.5 that current salary as his starting base before they begin salary discussions. I doubt they'd take on contract employees; they're more expensive and we know that no project is ever truly over.

2. That leaves them bidding the work out to someone else. We saw how well that worked last time, didn't we? I don't much trust them to come up with a workable system that can be modified as I see fit.

3. There's still no mention of what happens for house rules. Every 3E campaign uses some house rules. I use a different means of metamagic in my campaign. How would I be able to tell the program how to change itself to accomodate it? If I can't, I have no interest in it. And if I can, will it be easy to do? If it takes more than a minute or so, I'm probably not interested.

 

[JVisgaitis]

I tell you: the Internet will save the tabletop genre.

I would buy this in a heart beat as long as it worked on my Mac. Someone said something about monthly charges, bring it on. I'd pay for that type of convenience.

 

[Sir Elton]

4E aught to be the Holodeck.

 

[FickleGM]

I would pass on this.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

More and more people prefer MMORPGs because you do more stuff in less time. In a four-hour D&D session, you might get into four fights and advance 1/4 of a level. In the same amount of time in an MMORPG, you've accomplished a dozen quests, gotten into hundreds of fights, and advanced at least 1, probably 2 or 3 levels.


-z

What MMO are you playing?