Interpretation of rules

[glass]

Actually, I'm afraid you're confusing two separate penalties:
(1) -4 for shooting into melee, and another
(2) -4 for shooting past cover. In 3.0 and variant 3.5 this part can cause striking the ally.

This is very nicely laid out in the diagram on 3.0 PHB p. 123.

[nitpick]Actually, there is no penalty to the attack roll for shooting past cover: instead the target gets a bonus to his AC due to the cover.[/nitpick]


glass.

 

[irdeggman]

Actually, I'm afraid you're confusing two separate penalties:
(1) -4 for shooting into melee, and another
(2) -4 for shooting past cover. In 3.0 and variant 3.5 this part can cause striking the ally.

This is very nicely laid out in the diagram on 3.0 PHB p. 123.

It is also in the figure on pg 151 of the 3.5 DMG.

 

[werk]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but -4 is as good as the penalty gets. That is, if the DM decides that there is more 'cover' due to multiple combatants, large creatures, or environmental factors, the penalty can go up to -8 or more.

Maybe that's just the way I'm interpreting it...

 

[irdeggman]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but -4 is as good as the penalty gets. That is, if the DM decides that there is more 'cover' due to multiple combatants, large creatures, or environmental factors, the penalty can go up to -8 or more.

Maybe that's just the way I'm interpreting it...

Hmmm I don't think so anymore. In 3.0 they had degrees of cover in 3.5 there is cover or not. There is soft cover, but that is for something specific and not really the -4 penalty. I could be wrong though (haven't looked it up specifically) but I do know there aren't different degrees of cover in 3.5.

 

[billd91]

Actually, even in 3.5, cover bonuses can reach as high as +8 to AC if the DM believes it is warranted. See the heading "Varying Degrees of Cover" on p. 152 of the PH.

 

[irdeggman]

Actually, even in 3.5, cover bonuses can reach as high as +8 to AC if the DM believes it is warranted. See the heading "Varying Degrees of Cover" on p. 152 of the PH.

Thanks even when typing it it just didn't seem right.

 

[RIPnogarD]

One rule, two interpretations, which do you use?
Shooting or throwing into melee:
1) You take a -4 to hit (no choice), and can still end up hitting a friendly PC...
2) You have a choice, take the -4 and never hit a friendly or not take the penalty and maybe hit a friendly, if you miss your target...

So it's unanimous the answer to my dilemma is #1. With the disclaimer of cover and grappling rules added. (Even though you have a -4 you can still, in some situations, hit an ally.)

 

[dcollins]

So it's unanimous the answer to my dilemma is #1. With the disclaimer of cover and grappling rules added. (Even though you have a -4 you can still, in some situations, hit an ally.)

No!
- There is absolutely no chance of hitting an ally from the "shooting into melee" penalty (in any version of 3.x).
- There is also no chance of hitting an ally "providing cover" (in 3.5; but there is in 3.0 and variant 3.,5).

 

[IcyCool]

So it's unanimous the answer to my dilemma is #1. With the disclaimer of cover and grappling rules added. (Even though you have a -4 you can still, in some situations, hit an ally.)

Incorrect. Correct. See below.

Your firing process should go like this (assuming you are using the "striking cover" variant):

1. Check to see if your target is in melee with an ally.
2. If #1 is yes, check to see if ally provides cover.
3a. If #2 is no, you have a -4 penalty (negated by precise shot) to your attack roll against that target, and you have no chance of hitting your ally (unless the target and ally are grappling).
3b. If #2 is yes, you have a -4 penalty (negated by precise shot) to your attack roll against that target, and the target receives a cover bonus to its AC. If your shot misses, but the attack roll would have hit without the cover bonus, you instead strike the cover. If the cover is a creature/character, you do damage if your attack roll is sufficient to strike its AC.

 

[RIPnogarD]

I'm gettin confused here now...
So are you sayin that if my party of four friends is in melee with six goblins. I could just start lobbing arrows into the melee helter-skelter (WITH a -4!) and have no chance whatsoever of hitting an ally?
Or are you saying that there are other rules to consider, (in the above situation), such as cover & grappling, where there is a chance to hit an ally?