Iron Heroes...what's your opinion?

[Bagpuss]

Personally I'm removing magic (as spell casters) from the players hands altogether. In my campaign only outsiders can work magic (or people possessed by outsiders) and there are only evil outsiders. That solves all the problems with the magic system.

The Mastering Iron Heroes book (pdf) that just came out adds a load of ideas that also make combat more thrilling and would be much easier to intergrate to normal D&D than the stuff in the IH alternate players handbook.

 

[Edheldur]

The Mastering Iron Heroes book (pdf) that just came out adds a load of ideas that also make combat more thrilling and would be much easier to intergrate to normal D&D than the stuff in the IH alternate players handbook.

Care to the elaborate for the curious about the new PDF?

 

[Bagpuss]

Certainly.

It introduces Zones (Condition, Event and Action) for what these are like you are better checking the Monte's Site where there is two sample adventures that use them, and perview page about them. This is probably useful for spicing up and D&D combat.

New Villan Classes, which are sort of iconic villans, like Demonic Brute, Warleader and Dreaded Sorcerer which make the DM's work a bit less for manufacturing challenging NPC's without using the PC class with their heavier book-keeping requirement. More are planned for the monster book.

New ideas for using wealth now the PC's aren't paying for magic items, wealth feats, buying favours and the like. Very useful for Iron Heroes but could certainly benifit some standard D&D games.

Glory points which reward heroic behaviour with an action point plus bonus. Up to and including returning from the grave for one final battle.

Alternate XP award system.

Magic items with some serious draw backs, like invisibility potions made from demon's blood that are poisones. Or Con draining (to the user) magic swords.

Its a lot cheaper than the PHB and easier to intergrate IMHO, if I was a GM with an ongoing standard D&D campaign I think I would get more useful ideas from this than the Iron Heroes PHB.

 

[jcfiala]

LOL
A large majority agree that the magic system is either unfinished or flawed. Personally I like it and would use it as a base for a more developed, flavourful spellcasting (we are discussing of a variant with Wiz of Ice and other friends using spirits and possession for spellcasting. Really a cool idea. I'd like us to develop it and build on the existing system rather than destroy it, but haven't been tinkering the idea enough just as of yet - too much material to read for the 14th).

So, what exactly is the problem with the magic system? I'm curious about Iron Heros, but I'm allergic to buying books that were published with the author knowing that part of it was unfinished.

 

[ken-ichi]

I agree. The Mastering Iron Heroes pdf could be named masting D20 fantasy in Iron Heroes style.
There is little that is specific to the Iron Heroes ruleset, but there are some real good ideas and rules that can be adapted to almost any game.
I like the wealth feat idea as it gives the characters a method and reason to set up a home base somewhere. Property, contacts, servants and henchmen. All the good stuff that original D&D had you do when you reached the higher levels are possible with structure to help you rule it.
Rules for bribery and buying your way out of dangerous or embarasing situations is great. Plus it works well as a means to drain excess money from the PCs without being an arbitrary ale & wenches tax.
I like the villain classes and would love to see more of them, I don't really care if the enemy is built HD by HD with appropriate skill points to their monster type. I just want a decent enemy with useful and easy to use abilities, even if the PCs are not able to use the same abilities. But I am still a little uncertain how they are supposed to work with monstrous races. When you have a bugbear war leader, do you add the bugbear HD and stat bonuses or are they just replaced and being a bugbear is just flavor (I suppose you could just pick a higher CR warleader if it is a bugbear than you would if it is a human, as that is what would happen using the normal class rules)?

 

[Bagpuss]

So, what exactly is the problem with the magic system?

Pick your answer from the following.

a) There isn't one.
b) The various schools of which one you specialise in arn't balanced against each other.
c) Magic is too weak.
d) Magic is too strong.
e) Does fit well with the other classes.

There are lots of houserule fixes and complete rebuilds available if you check Monte's board, but personally I think Iron Heroes works best if there are no spell caster PC's, and magic of that nature is reserved for villans and non-PC races. Sure players can have access to magic through dangerous magic items with their own drawbacks, but I think it suits the feel of the game if magic is so dangerous, twisted or mysterious that everyday use is out of the players hands.

I imagine if the game had been published without the magic rules and no arcanist that there would actually have been less complaints...

 

[Edheldur]

Thanks for your answers, Bagpuss and ken-ichi!

It really sounds interesting and being that I'm already a Mearls fan I might just get it within a few days.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Thanks for your answers, Bagpuss and ken-ichi!

It really sounds interesting and being that I'm already a Mearls fan I might just get it within a few days.

Conan OGL is a much better gritty rules set IMO, plus you get a complete setting and magic system with it (although I'm not a fan of the magic system). However, after trying the Star Wars d20 game, I'm absolutely committed to the VP/WP mechanic, which Conan, AGOT and IH lack. I also prefer Star Wars "magic" (the Force), which makes "schools of magic" feats (some of which are tactical, in that they provide more than just access to spells) and each spell a separate skill. If I was going to run a fantasy game, I would go with the Star Wars model. YMMV.

 

[wizofice]

Conan OGL is a much better gritty rules set IMO, plus you get a complete setting and magic system with it (although I'm not a fan of the magic system).

What can you tell us about the Conan magic system? What's the basis?

 

[Plane Sailing]

I was vaguely disappointed with Iron Heroes, and I think part of it is that I missed stuff which was placed in the separate "DMG" book. I would prefer to have paid one higher price and had the two things in one (like I did with M&M, Spycraft 2 etc, effectively).

I'll certainly look at the pdf of the "DMG" though, if the price is right.

I've not played it yet to give a real opinion, but from what I've read through IH so far I'm not taken by the huge array of token pools which are all gained in different ways and spent in different ways (I prefer mechanics that are a little more uniform). It seems like it isn't too difficult to get players who are managing half a dozen different token pools (<-exaggerating), and I'm wondering how difficult it would be for my players to get their heads around it all (let alone me!)

Still thinking...