Iron Heroes...what's your opinion?

[iwatt]

It seems like it isn't too difficult to get players who are managing half a dozen different token pools (<-exaggerating), and I'm wondering how difficult it would be for my players to get their heads around it all (let alone me!)

It's daunting at first read. But then you realize that token abilities aren't that many (at first).
I really recomend not starting at high levels with your first IH game.

Also, the character creation is slower the first time (new ruleset), but it quickly becomes easier.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Obviously, you will hear a majority of people disagreeing on this point. Two main critics I've heard:
- The magic system is unfinished
- The magic system is underpowered

A third criticism that I've heard is that the different schools are not well balanced against each other - a powerful evoker has difficulty doing much damage over much of an area at the same time that an equivalent summoner will be getting gold dragons to do his bidding (I forget the precise details, but it is something along those lines, it may even have come up earlier in this thread)

Cheers

 

[wizofice]

A third criticism that I've heard is that the different schools are not well balanced against each other - a powerful evoker has difficulty doing much damage over much of an area at the same time that an equivalent summoner will be getting gold dragons to do his bidding (I forget the precise details, but it is something along those lines, it may even have come up earlier in this thread)

Which goes along with being unfinished.

Check out these variant spellcasting systems for IH. Jeremy Puckett addresses the school balance problem specifically.

 

[Bagpuss]

and I'm wondering how difficult it would be for my players to get their heads around it all (let alone me!)

If by "let alone me" you mean yourself as DM, don't worry the Mastering Iron Heroes makes it clear that PC's classes are for PC's most NPC's won't have token pools at all. The villan classes in the book don't all their abilities tend to be "at will" or "once per round", etc.

 

[GlassJaw]

What is Grim Tales? Never heard of it. Sounds like a Fairy Tale RPG, LOL.

And yet you couldn't be more wrong.

Grim Tales reviews
www.badaxegames.com

 

[Odhanan]

A third criticism that I've heard is that the different schools are not well balanced against each other - a powerful evoker has difficulty doing much damage over much of an area at the same time that an equivalent summoner will be getting gold dragons to do his bidding (I forget the precise details, but it is something along those lines, it may even have come up earlier in this thread)

Which goes along with the unfinished allegation, like says Wiz. I think along two lines on this precise issue: 1/ methods presented in the IH book are examples, not the only methods known to arcanists, so the system could be more balanced to some criticizing DMs with other, new methods. 2/ methods could be balanced with a light modification of the methods presented in the book for these same DMs without having to rebuild the magic system from the ground up, like Jeremy's take on the subject shows (see the link given by Wiz above).

In any case, I really don't think schools of magic are that unbalanced. Play a game without magic items and heavy damage devices. A fire burst of 4d6 damage (for instance) is something to be reckoned with, in such a rule set. And let's not forget the possible strain any advanced methods may create.

What is Grim Tales?

It really has nothing to do with "Fairy Tale RPG", and doesn't have much in common with Iron Heroes either, since Grim Tales does not propose a game where characters would be without magic but tougher to be able to fight standard D&D creatures, but proposes a ruleset based on d20 Modern for more medieval, or "low magic" settings without having the "Action" (tactical) emphasis that IH puts forward.

 

[Iron_Chef]

It really has nothing to do with "Fairy Tale RPG", and doesn't have much in common with Iron Heroes either, since Grim Tales does not propose a game where characters would be without magic but tougher to be able to fight standard D&D creatures, but proposes a ruleset based on d20 Modern for more medieval, or "low magic" settings without having the "Action" (tactical) emphasis that IH puts forward.

Thanks! The title was not precise enough to evoke anything in me other than an unpleasant thought that the game was somehow based on the Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales. Horrible title, IMO, even knowing what it's about. I'll try and give it a looksie if my FLGS even carries it. Who published/wrote it? What makes it so cool? This one just totally slipped under my radar.

 

[GlassJaw]

Who published/wrote it? What makes it so cool? This one just totally slipped under my radar.

Check out the links in my thread, above. Hunt around in this forum as well - lots of topics on GT.

 

[Malachias Invictus]

In any case, I really don't think schools of magic are that unbalanced. Play a game without magic items and heavy damage devices. A fire burst of 4d6 damage (for instance) is something to be reckoned with, in such a rule set.

I disagree strongly. The balance between the schools is utterly atrocious. Fortunately, the various modifications in the Spellcasting Wiki seem to handle "default Iron Heroes" magic pretty well, *and* throw in other spellcasting methods and styles to boot. I just wish there were more of us working on variants.

Secondly, a fire burst of 4D6 damage really is *not* something to reckon with in an Iron Heroes game. When you compare this to what other party members can dish out at those levels, and factor in the save for half, that ability is crap. Hell, the Aspects of Power crank out more damage. Don't forget that more often than not, you are going to be hit with a backfire which damages you rather than your opponent (and sometimes does not allow a save).

That said, I recommend my Iron Heroes/Elements of Magic system for those who want a bit more of a "D&D without the plethora of magic items"-type game, rather than a "Conan"-style game. My variant does not really work well with the latter.

MI

 

[Odhanan]

I really recomend not starting at high levels with your first IH game.

I think iwatt's advice is worth listening. The Iron Heroes system is not difficult to grasp, but it does have its own particularities here and there (skills become much more important because of the Stunt System, there are Challenges by which you can accomplish, with Stunts, much more things than what standard D&D characters can do, the pools change from uses per day, attacks of opportunity as simplified but slightly different, etc).

So read the rules. Then create your characters at 1st level, and learn IH from the ground up instead of trying to master it instantly. And try not to think of IH's rules with D&D's in mind. If you haven't playtested this or that, bear in mind that you cannot be sure of this or that effect in game. Just play the game, have fun, use stunts, then challenges, create neat, exciting adventurers that are prone to act rather than overtalk (in the good ol' pulp fashion) and you'll get one hell of a campaign in the end!