Is Chaotic evil more evil than Lawful evil?

[Voadam]

Actually, I think absolute devotion to the cause is Neutral Evil.

So did Lord Pendragon.

Are you contending that devotion to a cause is not a lawful trait, but neutral?

Absolute devotion seems more archetypally lawful on the Law/Chaos spectrum to me but it is arguable.

So then in your view is someone absolutely devoted to Chaotic Evil lawful, neutral or chaotic on the Law/Chaos spectrum?

 

[steeldragons]

Well, by this reasoning, all clerics of any deity of any alignment would have to be lawful.

"Devotion to a cause" comes in any shape or form. The "devotion" -5e paladin subclass title to the contrary- is not where the ethical and moral [alignment] is defined, but "the cause."

You can be devoted to Chaos...You are hence chaotic. You can be devoted the Neutrality, as old school druids were...and so, you are neutral.

I suppose the short answer is: Being "devoted" is not intrinsically "lawful," no.

 

[Caliban]

I don't think "Evil" is a cause that people actually devote themselves too. I think Neutral Evil is ultimately the most selfish of the evil alignments because it's evil for it's own sake. You care about yourself and your own desires and pleasure before anything else. You may use or hide behind the law, or ignore it altogether depending on the situation.

Lawful Evil is just as evil, but they prefer working within a structure - whether legal structure (evil bureaucrats, slavers, lawyers, etc.). They may not be more "evil" in an absolute sense, but they are more dangerous because they are more likely to work as part of a larger group and create institutions to support their goals.

Chaotic Evil is more dangerous on an individual level. Then tend to go for the more "hand on" approach to committing evil acts. The personal touch. They may lead a group (if they are the charismatic type), or be part of a larger group that caters to their particular world view, but it a tenuous relationship with no sense of loyalty. They tend to make a power play for leadership or just get bored because things are taking to long and go do something else. "I was part of a kidnapping ring, but negotiating with the family was taking forever. I wanted to switch to highway robbery but the other guys objected...so I killed them, killed the hostage, and killed and robbed the hostages family. Life is good."

 

[Umbran]

Are you contending that devotion to a cause is not a lawful trait, but neutral?

Wow. Old thread.

Devotion is neither lawful or chaotic, in and of itself. It is how that devotion is expressed that would indicate lawfulness or not. Otherwise, Chaotic Neutral (being devoted to personal freedom, and nothing else) could not exist.

For me, the point is this - the axes are orthogonal. So, if you are at any of the four extremes, you are a servant of two masters - you are, for example, a servant of chaos, and a servant of evil, both. And sometimes those things come into conflict. Sometimes, the most evil thing is *not* also the thing that allows you the greatest amount of personal freedom. And then, the CE person has a choice - be more evil, or more chaotic.

The Neutral Evil (nor any neutral) does not care about one of the axes. The NE will go with the most purely evil choice at every turn, never compromising to be more lawful or more chaotic.

 

[Red Dragon Gaming]

As others have said, evil is evil - Law and Chaos are more representative of whether an individual works within a planned structure or more randomly. Lawful Evil can be a very enduring form of evil, systematically creating evil norms in a society, legislating cruelty into practice. Chaotic Evil would be more volatile and unpredictable though.