Is it true that in early versions of 3rd ed sorcerors could cast cure spells?

[DM_Matt]

If you want such a class, try the Shujenja from OA....they are pretty much specialist sorcerors (by element, not school). Healing is under Water, so the hardcore battle mages (Fire ones) cant have it.....Air and Earth Shujenjas though can get both True Res AND Meteor Swarm eventually, but thts all the L9s they can cast out of their element. They also get d6 HD.

 

[Lord Ben]

I hopefully can convince someone to take a Cleric level, but if not I guess I might do this.

Another option I had was to take away turning undead and one domain and give the Cleric the BAB of a fighter. That would help.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

Another option I had was to take away turning undead and one domain and give the Cleric the BAB of a fighter. That would help.

Eh - I wouldn't do this. It seems like you have a party mix that is a whole lot more concerned about killing the bad guy than healing themselves. I think we need to go campaign specific here.

What are your players intent on running here?

 

[Lord Ben]

Well, we're going to start soon in Kalamar after we're done in the Temple of Elemental Evil. Hopefully they'll have some new interesting PC classes for me to try, but for now I'm not counting on it.

I have 3 full-time players, and one guy who shows up 75% of the time.

Player 1. He has just played Cleric for the last 8 months in the Temple of Elemental Evil. He wants a Barbarian/Forsaker, or a Monk/Ninja of the Crescent Moon.

Player 2. He's played a Fighter/Cleric (heavy on fighter), Fighter, and Fgt/Bbn. He's planning on playing a 4th varient of Fighter this session too. I'm hoping I can turn him into playing a Cleric by changing the class around to suit him. His biggest hang-up is the bad BAB. He has no interest in turning undead or in any domain except War since he's a melee freak (like me when I play). I figure the class would totally fit the way I know he'll play.

Player 3. He's been a Paladin (briefly), two different Rogues, and an Archer (fgt/order of the bow initiate). I'm guessing he'll be either a Bard or a Rogue. Perhaps Sorceror since he dosen't need to memorize ton's of spells then.

Player 4. He's carrying over a Barbarian from an earlier campaign we won't be continueing since it was the first time I DM'd and most of the players played and we didn't know what we were doing. However, he had already played and this is his favorite character of all time. We're going to say he was level drained down to 1 and restart him.

Nobody really has any desire to play Cleric unless it's changed to better reflect their ideal PC's. I could just run them without a Cleric, but I feel it's my job as a DM to accomodate them if they don't want to have one. I feel it's easier to give them some changes to their class then it is to force one of them to change or to redesign the modules.

 

[bret]

Player 2. He's played a Fighter/Cleric (heavy on fighter), Fighter, and Fgt/Bbn. He's planning on playing a 4th varient of Fighter this session too. I'm hoping I can turn him into playing a Cleric by changing the class around to suit him. His biggest hang-up is the bad BAB. He has no interest in turning undead or in any domain except War since he's a melee freak (like me when I play). I figure the class would totally fit the way I know he'll play.

Show him the Warpriest from Defenders of the Faith.

Taking one of these with combat oriented spells, he should be able to out fight the fighters for short battles. Once the spells run out, people are going to want to quit anyways since he is the only one with curing.

When you figure in things like Divine Favor, Bull's Strength, and other enhancers he really can pump himself for melee.

Personally, I think that the Warpriest is unbalanced. It is a better fighter than a Paladin, who is supposed to be *the holy warrier*. It doesn't help that they get holy sword sooner than a straight Paladin can.


If that doesn't work, point Player 3 towards a Druid. He can probably think up all sorts of ways to use the Wild Shape ability and may find that more enjoyable than a straight Cleric.


I don't know why so many people hate playing clerics. In my opinion, they are the most powerful character class in 3rd edition.

 

[Lord Ben]

The current player playing Clerics is more of a spellcaster in platemail then anything else and that dosen't appeal to the other guys. He gives clerics a bad name with 10 str, 10 dex, and 10 con, but 26 wis...

Warpriest is nice, hopefully we can steer him that way. I mentioned it to him, but he likes feats. He dosen't own the PHB so he hasn't paged through the spells much and I think he just doesn't want to be a nursemaid. Bah, don't heal them then if they're foolish then I say..

 

[Victim]

Cure light wounds wands are pretty cheap after battle healing. With a wand, a low to mid level cleric can use his good spells and not worry about people needing to be healed.

Part of the problem might be that all the player's previous characters were divine spell casters (cleric, multiclass cleric, paladin), so they might just be kind of burned out on them.

If a cleric has time to prepare before a fight, he can fight about as well as fighter, if he's willing to spend most of his spells on himself. At first level, stats are generally more important than class abilities anyway.

 

[Shaele]

--bret--
I don't know why so many people hate playing clerics. In my opinion, they are the most powerful character class in 3rd edition.
--------
People don't hate playing clerics, they hate playing healers.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if you specialize your cleric in war magic, shapechanging, elements... the game design assumes a certain level of healing ability, and tag- you're it. Having spontaneous healing abilities just reinforces this role.

 

[Lord Ben]

Nothing sucks worse then having to learn restoration every day just in case you run into level-draining undead. Or remove paralysis in case someone get's held, etc. The one time I played an Evil Cleric for a one-night session it was fun, I learnt half-dozen heal spells and the rest were ones I wanted to cast. When people complained about healing I could honestly say "sorry, I don't have any left"

 

[wolff96]

People don't hate playing clerics, they hate playing healers.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if you specialize your cleric in war magic, shapechanging, elements... the game design assumes a certain level of healing ability, and tag- you're it. Having spontaneous healing abilities just reinforces this role.

So go for a neutral god and channel negative energy. Combine that with your buffing spells and a focus on touch attacks (or pick up that "Ranged Touch" metamagic feat) and become a master of anti-healing.

If your fellow gamers want to survive, they can chip in together and buy a wand of cure xxxx spells for you to use on them. Otherwise, too bad.

Of course, that's MY take on how to make a fun cleric, YMMV.