Is open source a losing proposition for new rpg's

[Piratecat]

I expect the biggest issue for a new, small game, from someone who isn't a known designer, or working with a fan-favorite franchise, isn't about making money in sales. It is about your game being heard of at all.

With a small game the goal is market penetration, word of mouth, and people being excited about your game - excited enough to buy, and hopefully excited enough to then play! Because if they aren't playing, they're less likely to then buy more.

Initial cost is one barrier to entry, and open source rules lowers that barrier. For big publishers it's probably the biggest barrier to entry. But not for small publishers. I'll argue that a small publisher is significantly better off making supplemental material free, and charging for the core rules, than the other way around.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Works for D&D. Works for Pathfinder. I’m going to go with “no”.

That is not true open source for them. It is limited source with the OGL, and then only if you agree to put all your product on DM's Guild for D&D, do you get access to use all the IP, which is more open source. But aside from that, I think all the companies doing the same thing, Storyteller's Vault for the Vampire stuff and so on by other companies, are definitely making more money than the ones that are true open source with their games.

 

[GrahamWills]

Works for D&D. Works for Pathfinder. I’m going to go with “no”.

There's a difference between open source for a new RPG, which is what the OP is asking about, and taking a dominating market position and open sourcing a relatively small part of your IP

 

[Fenris-77]

In the case of Dungeon World, I personally think it's not a very good game to begin with. If the market for an idea isn't there, the monetization model won't make it a success.
There's of course a difference in how much profit a creator can make with the market that is there, but increasing the price is not going to make the the product more popular. (Though there's an exception to that rule for luxury brand, where displaying how much you can spend on a product with cheaper alternative is the main appeal of said product.)

Well, your opinion of the game aside it has a solid fan base and its open source nature has seen rather of of excellent 3rd party and homebrew materials released for it, which seems like a win for the fanbase. Building a fanbase is, IMO, one of the key parts of open sourcing a game. It allows lots of people to produce content which in turn helps people stay engaged. The Mothership example above is perfect in that context.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Well, your opinion of the game aside it has a solid fan base and its open source nature has seen rather of of excellent 3rd party and homebrew materials released for it, which seems like a win for the fanbase. Building a fanbase is, IMO, one of the key parts of open sourcing a game. It allows lots of people to produce content which in turn helps people stay engaged. The Mothership example above is perfect in that context.

Well, building a fanbase is nice, but building a paying fanbase is better, which I think is what the OP is getting at.

 

[Fenris-77]

Well, building a fanbase is nice, but building a paying fanbase is better, which I think is what the OP is getting at.

A paying fanbase can be built through open sourcing, lots of games do it. The 3rd party content, often very low cost or free, keeps things fresh, and people interested, which makes it more likely that there will some significant group of people around to pay actual money for official sourcebooks when they appear. A strong gaming community can be monetized many ways, but you need the people first of you're dead in the water. It's kind of like a new restaurant - you need butts in seats before you can do anything else.

 

[aramis erak]

That is not true open source for them. It is limited source with the OGL, and then only if you agree to put all your product on DM's Guild for D&D, do you get access to use all the IP, which is more open source. But aside from that, I think all the companies doing the same thing, Storyteller's Vault for the Vampire stuff and so on by other companies, are definitely making more money than the ones that are true open source with their games.

Actually, the 5E SRD is OGL 1.0a, not just DM's Guild. DM's Guild allows more of the core to be used, as the SRD is trimmed. One can use the SRD without using DM's Guild - which Wyvern and Onyx Path have both done... (SG-1 and Pugmire, respectively.) What the SRD only route won't do is let you do is indicate compatibility. But you don't give up a percentage to WotC, either.

The Free Open Source Software movement has a lot of stuff used by closed source programs, with lots of disclaimers... and source that cannot compile to the released game

The Tabletop Open License field has not had that happen much. Then again, in the US, the open license is only to the copyright text, as the mechanics are not protected. (France and Germany do protect the rules, not just the wording. Some others, as well. The US is fairly unusual in "not protecting the rules" trumping copyright, but it's blackletter that a rule which cannot be reworded isn't protectable, either.) Most legitimately add material to the Open License.

A lot of open license stuff, both software and tabletop, is lousy. What it adds isn't worth keeping. But adhering to the license is a good deed. And the making available of stuff that is worthwhile? That's a better good deed.

 

[Staffan]

The current trend among mid-sized publishers seems to be toward DM's Guild-style arrangements rather than going OGL/Creative Commons. These arrangements generally exist at the publisher's sufferance, have the publisher take a cut, but in exchange allow for the use of more IP and things like trade dress. The ones I'm aware of are Storyteller's Vault (White Wolf), Company of the Phoenix/Infiniverse Exchange/Scriptorium Aventuris (Ulisses Spiele, for Fading Suns, TORG Eternity, and The Dark Eye respectively), Pathfinder/Starfinder Infinite (Paizo), and Free League Workshop (various Free League offerings).

From the main publisher's perspective, this seems more useful. They retain power over the brand (avoiding things like the Book of Erotic Fantasy) and limit the kind of things partners provide to things that supplement, rather than supplant, their own products. From the perspective of prospective partners, it is definitely more limited than the OGL, which means it probably caters more to hobbyists wanting to share stuff they were making anyway for beer money rather than professionals trying to make a living (with a small number of exceptions). But on the plus side, you don't have to worry about whether or not Bigby's Hand is cleared for use or not, and you usually have permission to copy layout and such from the publisher so you're saving money on that side. Plus, there's a marketplace where you can sell it and have the publisher point people toward it, rather than having to market it yourself.

 

[aramis erak]

The current trend among mid-sized publishers seems to be toward DM's Guild-style arrangements rather than going OGL/Creative Commons. These arrangements generally exist at the publisher's sufferance, have the publisher take a cut, but in exchange allow for the use of more IP and things like trade dress. The ones I'm aware of are Storyteller's Vault (White Wolf), Company of the Phoenix/Infiniverse Exchange/Scriptorium Aventuris (Ulisses Spiele, for Fading Suns, TORG Eternity, and The Dark Eye respectively), Pathfinder/Starfinder Infinite (Paizo), and Free League Workshop (various Free League offerings).

Mongoose Traveller has JTAS.
Onyx Path's Pugmire has one, too.

There's one coming for Sentinel Comics, apparently.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Actually, the 5E SRD is OGL 1.0a, not just DM's Guild. DM's Guild allows more of the core to be used, as the SRD is trimmed. One can use the SRD without using DM's Guild - which Wyvern and Onyx Path have both done... (SG-1 and Pugmire, respectively.) What the SRD only route won't do is let you do is indicate compatibility. But you don't give up a percentage to WotC, either.

That is exactly what I said. You want to use all the IP, you have to publish it on DMs Guild.