Is switching hands a free action?

[Yair]

I was referred to this post by Tony Vargas, who in our game wants to walk around the dungeon with a light shield and long sword in one hand and a javelin in the other. Then after throwing the javelin, ready the long sword as a free action. I don't believe that should be a free action.

Your ruling is perfectly reasonable, IMO.

I think generally switching hands is more time and effort consuming than the given Free Action examples, yet easier than the Minor Actions provided. It's somewhere in between. I am happy with ruling it a Free Action primarily since magical daggers return to their wielder's hand as a "free action", and since the character is holding the dagger ready to be put in the hand (not in a hold ready for attack) and practically pushes the dagger into his other hand. So I think this is, overall, reasonable. But this doesn't appear to be an issue that the rules are clear on.

 

[small pumpkin man]

I don't think switching hands would be a free action.

PH 267, Minor Action "...pulling an item from a pouch or a sheath, ...picking up an item
in your space or in an unoccupied square within reach."

PH 267, Free Action "...dropping a held item, letting go of a grabbed enemy."

I would argue that tossing the weapon from one hand to the other always takes time in the movies and could be a little tricky to pull off. I would also argue that taking an item, any item, from your hand requires about the same effort as picking that item off a table your standing right next to. I would also argue that a samurai type guy could draw his sword from his sheathe and attack faster than you can switch the mouse to your other hand and click reply.

Note that the examples involves picking up an item from the ground, not picking an item of a table, which is much faster, and pretty much any Samurai from a movie is going to have quick draw, which specifically makes drawing a weapon faster than a free action, since it takes no action at all.

Dropping an item is a free action, so letting go of the item in your left hand is free action and picking up an item is a minor action, so taking the item with your right hand would be a minor action.

No, if dropping an item to the ground and picking it up again is only a minor action, since actually switching from one hand to the other is faster irl, this is actually a good reason to say switching hands is a free action.

The references to thrown weapons, ammunition and magic versions on this post are all incomplete. Look each one up yourself and as a whole, there doesn't appear to be any discrepencies nor do they suggest that switching hands needs to be a free action.

I was referred to this post by Tony Vargas, who in our game wants to walk around the dungeon with a light shield and long sword in one hand and a javelin in the other. Then after throwing the javelin, ready the long sword as a free action. I don't believe that should be a free action.

As you say, neither stance is directly supported by the rules, I doubt people are going to complain too much.

 

[Milambus]

Wow, I thought that the recent D&D Q&A would have killed this topic:

Ask Wizards: 10/08/2008
Q: I wield a longsword. When I change from one hand to two (or vice versa), what type of action is that?

A: Changing the number of hands you are using to hold a weapon can be done as a free action.

Now lets look at what makes up switching weapons from one hand to the other.
1. Start with a sword in your left hand.
2. Bring your right and left hand together so that you are not wielding the sword two-handed. (Free Action per the above ruling)
3. Release the sword from your left hand, so you are now wielding it solely in your right hand. (Free Action per the above ruling)

Free Action + Free Action = Free Action (Since they take no time by definition)

Switching a dagger or any other object from one hand to the other is a similar movement even if you can't normally them two-handed.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The FAQ answer is just like 3.5, I see. Switching 'grips' is free, therefore switching grips twice is still free.

However, in 4e, free actions can be taken when it's not your turn, so that could have some consequences... probably not serious ones, but still.


I wonder who 'jimmy' is....

Not the DM, since I'm being allowed to swap weapons and items to and from my light-shield hand (I asked about it specifically, since otherwise, I'd've gone for a heavy shield). Though, seriously, it rarely comes up, warlords generally have better things to do than ranged basic attacks - I think I've pulled that trick twice in 5 levels. More often, I find myself holding a sunrod in my shield hand. :shrug:

 

[tgayoso]

Though, seriously, it rarely comes up, warlords generally have better things to do than ranged basic attacks - I think I've pulled that trick twice in 5 levels. More often, I find myself holding a sunrod in my shield hand. :shrug:

Better things to do? What if rather than that lame sunrod, you Warlord is carrying around a flaming sword in his light shield hand. Then after hearling a javelin with its sweet strength bonus to hit and damage, then he'd like to not waste a minor action on switching hands whilst he moves-in to 'Lead the Attack'.

I do agree it is not clearly stated in the rules and the examples given are super quick mindless tasks. Switching hands as a free action would almost warrent a dexterity check, but that would slow down the game. Either way, it's a House Rule.

 

[Leatherhead]

Better things to do? What if rather than that lame sunrod, you Warlord is carrying around a flaming sword in his light shield hand. Then after hearling a javelin with its sweet strength bonus to hit and damage, then he'd like to not waste a minor action on switching hands whilst he moves-in to 'Lead the Attack'.

You can use a javelin as a melee weapon. Actually, it is a melee weapon that you can throw.

 

[Jimmy_631]

Sorry Tony Vargas, t(tony)gayoso who responded after you told me about this post and I wrongly assumed you were he or he were you or I was just mistaken.

I think the Light Shield free hand is great for holding a sunrod or climbing or picking your nose during a short rest. And not having it on the Heavy Shield is definately worth considering.

I guess I just don't think "You need to use your shield hand to wield a light shield properly. You can still use that hand to hold another item..." to hold a big item, like a long sword in the Tony I play with's example or even a greatsword or battleaxe. Seems a bit munchkin cheesy, "not that there's anything wrong with that."

I didn't see any need to make it free for the dagger(s) discussion or ammunition.

I pictured the FAQ answer more in terms of I am attacking and I want to use two hands instead of one as I swing, but I guess you could switch from one hand to two without attacking. I am also down with free + free = free.

So I could see why a DM would rule the other way.

 

[tgayoso]

I guess I just don't think "You need to use your shield hand to wield a light shield properly. You can still use that hand to hold another item..." to hold a big item, like a long sword in the Tony I play with's example or even a greatsword or battleaxe. Seems a bit munchkin cheesy, "not that there's anything wrong with that."
quote]

My point about the flaming longsword is that it doubles as a light source in your shield hand while having the ranged weapon (javelin) in the other hand. After the javelin is tossed, ya need to switch hands for the longsword (i.e., minor action). In a surprise round, you want to be ready. Munchin cheesy...perhaps...but it's something a warlord would consider important.

 

[keterys]

Free Action + Free Action = Free Action (Since they take no time by definition)

False. Saying "Four" takes a negligible amount of effort and time. Saying "Score" takes a negligible amount of effort and time. Reciting the Gettysburg Address requires a lot of time.

Similarly, if you hold 100 marbles in your hand and drop them one at a time (free action) while counting up to 100 (free action), it does not take 200 Free Actions = Free Action. It most likely takes all of your actions for several minutes.

Very few free actions actually take _no_ time, most take a small enough amount of time they can be done while you do other actions.

At any time, the DM (or player) may decide that things take too much effort or time to perform as a free action.

 

[Tony Vargas]

While it's true that there's a fuzzy line that can be crossed when you're performing /many/ free actions, two isn't many.