Is the current Doctor REALLY the 11th?

[Vyvyan Basterd]

****40+ year old spoilers ahead***



I just watched The War Games, the final serial for the second Doctor, Patrick Troughton.

I've always scoffed that the Doctor from the American TV movie actually counted as a Doctor, especially since the Doctor from the older movies is not counted. But the argument is that we see Sylvester McCoy regenerate into the actor from the TV movie. Fine.

But, at the end of The War Games Patrick Troughton doesn't die and does not regenerate. The Time Lords merely change his appearance for his exile on Earth. He was even able to choose what he would look like after the transformation, although it seemed he couldn't chose so they instead chose for him.

So, since regeneration is touted as the reason the American TV movie Doctor is a Doctor and the older movies Doctor are not, wouldn't that make John Pertwee the second actor to play the 2nd Doctor? That would put us at the 10th Doctor now.

 

[Janx]

I am not a DW expert, having only seen the BBC relaunch doctors (the last 3 doctors counting Matt Smith).

However, what i vaguely recall, one of the DW movies had the Doctor actually be an earthling, who invented the Daleks, and the movie was about him trying to solve that problem.

I would think, that movie, as it didn't follow the basic cannon that DW was an alien (timelord) and thus didn't count as a valid doctor.

I'm also vaguely aware that the doctor only gets 12 incarnations, so if he's up to 11, they're going to need to make up some special reason to keep the series going after that.

 

[Remus Lupin]

And as I recall his name was actually "Dr. Who."

 

[hopeless]

Technically...

They actually forced a regeneration to change actors from Doc 2 to Doc 3.

However the rubbish regarding the meta crisis doctor actually means Doc 11 is actually Doc 12 since he did use up a regeneration to heal himself even if he did store the excess in his spare hand THAT hand became Doc 11 who conceivably could become the doctor who of Pete's Earth...

But people tend to gloss over THAT detail!

 

[Viking Bastard]

The first doctor didn't regenerate into the 2nd Doctor as we think of it today, either. That's just because they were making it up as they went along and it took the mythology a few regenerations to establish itself properly. The 3rd Doctor is completely different from the 2nd Doctor and it was that regeneration that established the whole temporary amnesia post-regeneration that's been used for most regeneration stories since.

The Doctor from the Dalek movies, on the other hand, is the Earth-2 Doctor, so to speak. He's not a Timelord, but Who, PhD.

I actually thought this thread was about 'The Brain of Morbius', where we got to see the Doctor's past incarnations (and implied heavily that William Hartnell's Doctor wasn't the first).

I'm also vaguely aware that the doctor only gets 12 incarnations, so if he's up to 11, they're going to need to make up some special reason to keep the series going after that.

This gets a bit tricky, but here it is: He gets 12 regenerations, but that means 13 total Doctors, BUT David Tennant's Doctor used up 2 regenerations (that created the Doctor-Donna) so he has only one regeneration left instead of two, BUT Melody Pond just gave him her regenerations, BUT... so on and so forth.

Doctor Who continuity is timey-wimey, to put it nicely.

 

[Remus Lupin]

And don't forget that the Master exceeded his total number of regenerations through various nefarious means (ultimately ending up looking very "lich-like" in the old series).

And, of course, if 200 years hence the Doctor dies once and for all in his Matt Smith face, then that obviates the need for any further regenerations. Just as long as Matt's willing to keep playing the Doctor for another 200 or so years!

 

[Ed_Laprade]

In other words, it depends on Who's counting.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And, of course, if 200 years hence the Doctor dies once and for all in his Matt Smith face, then that obviates the need for any further regenerations. Just as long as Matt's willing to keep playing the Doctor for another 200 or so years!

That's assuming that was the real Doctor who died (The Master, again????)...that's assuming that something didn't forceably make him assume Matt's face...or any number of things.


(All off screen, of course.)

 

[Hand of Evil]

First Doctor

William Hartnell

1963–1966



Second Doctor

Patrick Troughton

1966–1969



Third Doctor

Jon Pertwee

1970–1974



Fourth Doctor

Tom Baker

1974–1981



Fifth Doctor

Peter Davison

1981–1984



Sixth Doctor

Colin Baker

1984–1986



Seventh Doctor

Sylvester McCoy

1987–1989, 1996



Eighth Doctor

Paul McGann

1996



Ninth Doctor

Christopher Eccleston

2005



Tenth Doctor

David Tennant

2005–2010



Eleventh Doctor

Matt Smith

2010–present

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Thank you for the official recap Hand, but I can name all but Paul McGann (because I'm in denial that he existed) off the top of my head. Not the point I was going for.