Is Wraithstrike the wrong level?

[Mort]

But eventually you'll run out of spell slots to cast Wraithstrike (esp of you are Arcane Striking in conjunction), and you can continue to use Emerald Razon and Deep Impact all day long.

Of course, which is why I said wraithstriking for only 1 attack is not in the least bit broken.

Being able to have multiple touch attacks (that allow all damage bonuses) in the same round is orders of magnitude better than only having one touch attack, being limited in the number of times you can do it doesn't change that.

 

[Darklone]

And don't forget that the Psywar with Deep Impact needs to refocus all the time (at least a ME action), needs a feat (or two for ME refocus) and still needs to succeed at all those Concentration DC20 checks. So yes, 1 attack per round if everything works fine.

 

[Rystil Arden]

And don't forget that the Psywar with Deep Impact needs to refocus all the time (at least a ME action), needs a feat (or two for ME refocus) and still needs to succeed at all those Concentration DC20 checks. So yes, 1 attack per round if everything works fine.

Isn't it three feats? I thought DI required Psionic Weapon?

 

[EyeontheMountain]

And don't forget that the Psywar with Deep Impact needs to refocus all the time (at least a ME action), needs a feat (or two for ME refocus) and still needs to succeed at all those Concentration DC20 checks. So yes, 1 attack per round if everything works fine.

Yes, Refocus makes for a great limitation on this feat, why I consider it balanced. Jsut to note, Deep impact says nothing about your NEXT attack being a touch attack, you choose, which is great for your last attack.

Also it is the third feat in a chain (considering Psychic mediatation part of the chain.) Taht helps balance it also.

 

[Darklone]

Thanks.

Well... so wraithstrike is better than a strong ability that needs 3 feats to be used properly without being sure that it works all the time.

Byebye wraithstrike.

 

[Votan]

Thanks.

Well... so wraithstrike is better than a strong ability that needs 3 feats to be used properly without being sure that it works all the time.

Byebye wraithstrike.

Interestingly enough, the spell pretty much balances if you amke the casting time a move action now that I think about it. A few abusive things for the spiked chain tripper with combat reflexes but nothing really all that bad.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Interestingly enough, the spell pretty much balances if you amke the casting time a move action now that I think about it. A few abusive things for the spiked chain tripper with combat reflexes but nothing really all that bad.

Actually it doesn't balance at a Move Action--because you can then Quicken it and get the regular Wraithstrike back as a level 6 spell, and it is still overpowered at that level.

 

[Nifft]

Wraithstrike should be stricken from the game. As is, it is broken and not fixable IMO. It is just too problematic to convert attacks from non-touch to touch.

I mostly agree.

A spell that allows ONE melee attack as a touch attack? Not broken. But a full attack? Broken.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Votan]

Actually it doesn't balance at a Move Action--because you can then Quicken it and get the regular Wraithstrike back as a level 6 spell, and it is still overpowered at that level.

This I would disagree with. Wraithstrike is strong but not so strong that it is better than a 6th level spell. It gives a huge bonus to hit because it is a touch attack.

However, 6th level makes some things change:

1) Low level dips can no longer acquire it. You need a focused Fighter/mage to acquire this spell requiring 11 levels of casting. This is becoming a good boost for an Eldritch Knight (at least 13th level for this class combination assuming it is based on wizard).

At 13th level the Wizard is casting Finger of Death, Reverse Gravity and Forcecage. Heck, even distintegrate is likely to do as much damage as a full attack action.

2) One of the nice things about Wraithstrike is that it comes out of spells that are rarely used but remains highly effective at high levels. Unenhanced second level spells are rarely effective uses of an action at 10th level. Wrathstrike was a notable exception to this rule.

3) Other metamagic competes. Using of Energy Substitution (to avoid energy resistence) and Empower on Scorching Ray is a 5th level spell. The 6th level equivalent is Maximize or Twin. Doing 24d6 (twinned) damage as a ranged touch attack at 50 feet plus (by this level) is generally easier to pull off than a full attack that requires getting close and is less investment than a charge based Wraithstrike.

4) Adding this spell to other lists (for example, via Extra Spell should you beleive that works) is no longer a complete no brainer for Paladins and Rangers. Only full casters with Quicken spell as a feat will see this as a potentially worthwhile investment.


It is still a decent use of a 6th level spell. But, now, it appears that there are choices that might be equally good or there is a requirement for a lot of investment in a particular strategy. I don't mind if careful investment can provide good options for a character. In particular, once multiple feats start to make sense then I think that the character is picking an option. That is good.

Once there is choice the spell starts to balance.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Of course, which is why I said wraithstriking for only 1 attack is not in the least bit broken.

Being able to have multiple touch attacks (that allow all damage bonuses) in the same round is orders of magnitude better than only having one touch attack, being limited in the number of times you can do it doesn't change that.

Yeah, maybe if you only have 1 or 2 encounters a day. Often PCs can't choose when and where they would like to rest to get their spells back, or if they get attacked at night. So the PC that drains all his spells on Wraithstrike will be SOL to the character that can continue to do touch attacks on later encounters.