Is Wraithstrike the wrong level?

[satori01]

The spell, frankly is stronger in the hands of the DM than it is for players. I am quite sure I can take almost any giant, add 4 levels of non associated class: Sorcerer, take Wraithstrike, and full power attack with a 2 handed weapon, and with Cleave, and Great Cleave kill most groups.

Wraithstrike was from Complete Multiclassing err.. I mean Complete Adventurer and is clearly meant to make up for horrible Wizard/Fighter BAB Of course a 16 level Eldritch Knight is only 3 points of BAB behind a warrior class, and Touch AC for many creatures is more than 3 points away.

Part of me wonders if there was no 2 for 1 Power Attack, if the spell would be that much overpowered? Part of me also thinks that unless you are fighting a creature that has SR you just can not beat, that dropping a high level spell into Arcane Strike may not be the best way to go.

Damage from Power Attack is obviously less randomized than a handful of D6s , and you can Crit with a weapon more easily, but when you can cast Implosion, is it truly better to be Wraithstriking, Power Attacking, Arcane Striking?

 

[Rystil Arden]

The spell, frankly is stronger in the hands of the DM than it is for players. I am quite sure I can take almost any giant, add 4 levels of non associated class: Sorcerer, take Wraithstrike, and full power attack with a 2 handed weapon, and with Cleave, and Great Cleave kill most groups.

Wraithstrike was from Complete Multiclassing err.. I mean Complete Adventurer and is clearly meant to make up for horrible Wizard/Fighter BAB Of course a 16 level Eldritch Knight is only 3 points of BAB behind a warrior class, and Touch AC for many creatures is more than 3 points away.

Part of me wonders if there was no 2 for 1 Power Attack, if the spell would be that much overpowered? Part of me also thinks that unless you are fighting a creature that has SR you just can not beat, that dropping a high level spell into Arcane Strike may not be the best way to go.

Damage from Power Attack is obviously less randomized than a handful of D6s , and you can Crit with a weapon more easily, but when you can cast Implosion, is it truly better to be Wraithstriking, Power Attacking, Arcane Striking?

Yes, actually. Yes it is. There are very few level-appropriate enemies that would fail a save against Implosion.

 

[Votan]

It depends a lot on what opponent you are facing.

Consider three cases:

1) Ancient Blue Dragon. Base AC 38. Touch AC 6. Net benefit for casting this spell + 32 to hit.

2) Will-o-wisp. Base AC 29. Touch AC 29. Net benefit for casting this spell +0 to hit

3) Hybrid Form Werewolf. Base AC 16. Touch AC 12. Net benefit for casting this spell +4 to hit.


It is an interesting spell as it seems to do more at high levels and fails against a lot of opponents. A Quickened True Strike is usually much better except vs. very high level and high AC opponents.

So long as the spell is only being used by Eldritch Knights at medium levels it is fine; if these attacks (even paired with Arcane Strike) are competing with disintegrate spells and Destruction spells than it is a fine and balanced option.

But 2nd level has a few big problems:

1) It is eay to get with a few levels of dipping (Abjurant Champion with one level of wizard or sorcerer; get Nerveskitter and Wraithstrike plus Shield to qualify, use nothing else but these spells and still be very happy for the loss of one point of BAB)

2) Extra Spell can be a problem if Rangers/Paladins/Duskblades/Clerics can use it to select this spell.

3) Not pinnacle; casting second level spells, except at very low levels, is not a significant resource drain. So the character can save pinnacle spells for more dangerous things.

Making it a 3rd or 4th level spell would be an enormous step forward. I think 5th is too high as a Quickened True Strike is a better overall spell.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Why do you say a Quickened True Strike is usually much better? It only applies to a single attack, and your first attack at that, which was probably going to hit anyway. Wraithstrike affects them all. Quickened True Strike is actually almost never better. Admittedly, for certain opponents that have no armour, shield, or natural armour bonus, Wraithstrike doesn't work, but just because it doesn't auto-assassinate every enemy in the game doesn't mean it isn't broken.

 

[Votan]

Why do you say a Quickened True Strike is usually much better? It only applies to a single attack, and your first attack at that, which was probably going to hit anyway. Wraithstrike affects them all. Quickened True Strike is actually almost never better. Admittedly, for certain opponents that have no armour, shield, or natural armour bonus, Wraithstrike doesn't work, but just because it doesn't auto-assassinate every enemy in the game doesn't mean it isn't broken.

True, Wratihstrike is too good because of what it works against.

But, what I like about Quickened True strike is that it is utterly relaible. It does not depend on the opponent that you are facing. In addition, especially at lower levels, the bonus to hit is a lot better for most CR-appropriate foes.

If given at the same level, I would always pick QTS over Wraithstrike. However, the fact that iWratihstrike is competitive with a 5th level spell that I'd actually prepare is a warning that, whether you agree with me about it being weaker or not, 2nd level is probably too low.

 

[Nail]

The Tome of Battle: Book of 9 Swords has a 2nd level maneuver called Emerald Razor, which is a standard action of one melee attack that's treated as a touch attack.

At 2nd level, it's *maybe* balanced. Maybe. But only because it's restricted to a Standard Action.

 

[Mort]

The Tome of Battle: Book of 9 Swords has a 2nd level maneuver called Emerald Razor, which is a standard action of one melee attack that's treated as a touch attack.

At 2nd level, it's *maybe* balanced. Maybe. But only because it's restricted to a Standard Action.

I had mentioned that earlier. Similarly, The Expanded Psionics handbook has deep impact, which allows your next attack to be a touch atttack if you expend your focus (notice this is a little better, because you can do it as part of a full attack).

Allowing 1 attack as a touch attack is good, but hardly broken.

The problem is because ALL attacks for the round (including AoO's) are touch attacks, which gets ridiculous at high levels. Heck I think I could make a jade phoenix mage with 13 touch attacks in one round; which is just too much. Of course you can do nearly the same thing with stormguard warrior, but that's another discussion.

 

[Darklone]

Huhm, Dervish with a thousand cuts... 16 attacks or more? Not counting AoOs yet?

 

[The Grackle]

Actually, this wouldn't do much - activating a wand is a standard action, and since it's a self only spell, you would get no attacks that turn. The only possible benefit would be for AoO's you get before your next turn.

Yeah, that occured to me later on. Oh, well. Brokenness averted.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I had mentioned that earlier. Similarly, The Expanded Psionics handbook has deep impact, which allows your next attack to be a touch atttack if you expend your focus (notice this is a little better, because you can do it as part of a full attack).

Allowing 1 attack as a touch attack is good, but hardly broken.

The problem is because ALL attacks for the round (including AoO's) are touch attacks, which gets ridiculous at high levels. Heck I think I could make a jade phoenix mage with 13 touch attacks in one round; which is just too much. Of course you can do nearly the same thing with stormguard warrior, but that's another discussion.

But eventually you'll run out of spell slots to cast Wraithstrike (esp of you are Arcane Striking in conjunction), and you can continue to use Emerald Razon and Deep Impact all day long.