D&D (2024) It feels so much like the D&D Next playtest did

[FitzTheRuke]

As a grognard myself who they blamed for ruining the game, I think maybe this statement should have been more directed at them, who did the actual insulting and blaming, rather than the person pointing out the flaw in their argument. Frankly, I'm getting pretty tired of always hearing that argument come up ("5e would have been better if the grognards didn't ruin it for the rest of us, who are actually the important demographic.")

"Grognards ruined the game for us!"
"No, they actually didn't."
"Don't be unkind to the person insulting other gamers by correcting them."

You self-identify as a grognard? That seems like a strange thing to do to me. Seems easier/healthier to assume that someone isn't talking about you, rather than that they are, when they use that word.

But of course, you are perfectly within your rights to be tired of whatever arguments you like. I was more attempting to give friendly advice on how not to keep the vicious cycle of hate rolling. It wasn't my intention to shift any blame. It's everyone's responsibility to have civil discourse, myself included.

(I do think it's interesting to note that you feel that your previous response boils down to "no they didn't". It's good to know that that was your intent, because it's not at all how the post came off to me).

EDIT to add: Oh, and my response to you should not have been read as "don't be unkind to the insulting guy" - I meant it more as "Protect yourself from being insulted" (I mean this post that way too!) along with a bit of "Why can't we all just get along?" Sorry if that was unclear.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I was thinking about this yesterday. Well, a slight variation anyways. I was thinking, "Ah, now the 5e fans who came on board with 5e will start the same posts about betrayal and abandonment that 4e fans made when 5e came out, that 3e fans made when 4e came out, and what AD&D fans made in the early days on forums when 3e came out.

Some things are assured lol.

From what I see here, it is rather people who don't like 5e anyway, or at least since tasha came out who are annyoed by the changes...

 

[Sacrosanct]

You self-identify as a grognard? That seems like a strange thing to do to me.

Why is that? Grognards have been defined to include pretty much all older gamers who are fans of early TSR games. Of which I am one. Just because others insist on using it as a pejorative against others, doesn't mean it actually is one. Your post is reading like someone would never willingly admit to being one, reaffirming that it's a bad thing to be one. I don't know if that's your intent, but if so, it sort of reinforces my point.

As an aside, I don't think I'm a huge fan of the idea that the offended is in the wrong for being offended (including "why would you be one of those people?"), rather than the person doing the offending generalizations.

 

[billd91]

Why is that? Grognards have been defined to include pretty much all older gamers who are fans of early TSR games. Of which I am one. Just because others insist on using it as a pejorative against others, doesn't mean it actually is one. Your post is reading like someone would never willingly admit to being one, reaffirming that it's a bad thing to be one. I don't know if that's your intent, but if so, it sort of reinforces my point.

Yeah, I encountered grognard as a self-applied label indicating that the player had been around the block a few times and was kind of joking about their age in the hobby. I only really started to see people using it as a pejorative term during the 3e days.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, I encountered grognard as a self-applied label indicating that the player had been around the block a few times and was kind of joking about their age in the hobby. I only really started to see people using it as a pejorative term during the 3e days.

I'm certainly no Grognard, but yeah, it was a badge of respect and honor in the Nepoleanic army which is what the OG Wargamers were referencing when they would grouse about new fangled trends in the hobby. It was always a self-deprecating joke.

 

[payn]

I'm certainly no Grognard, but yeah, it was a badge of respect and honor in the Nepoleanic army which is what the OG Wargamers were referencing when they would grouse about new fangled trends in the hobby. It was always a self-deprecating joke.

These self-deprecating jokes always have a tendency to become a weapon by folks who want to generalize.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I’ve decided that it’s too complicated figuring out what I’m going to like, and what I won’t, and certainly it’s too much trouble to reserve judgment until I try it, so I’m going to simplify my life by hating everything about 5e, but also hating all the changes they make for 5.5.

 

[Alzrius]

Yeah, I encountered grognard as a self-applied label indicating that the player had been around the block a few times and was kind of joking about their age in the hobby. I only really started to see people using it as a pejorative term during the 3e days.

I've seen it used both ways, though I prefer the former (since I, myself, am a grognard).

I just wish I knew how to properly pronounce the damn word. Is it "grog-nard" or "gron-yard"?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It was always a self-deprecating joke.

No it wasn't.

It was being used as both an insult and a self-identification all the way back into the 1990s, so don't give me that. The self-identification wasn't always self-deprecating either. Sometimes it was used to assert that they "knew better".

 

[Parmandur]

No it wasn't.

It was being used as both an insult and a self-identification all the way back into the 1990s, so don't give me that. The self-identification wasn't always self-deprecating either. Sometimes it was used to assert that they "knew better".

That's my understanding of how the term began in the 70's, from Grognards.