Joss Whedon Allegations: The Undoing of the "Buffy" Creator

[doctorbadwolf]

Nobody forced you to reply. You weren’t clear otherwise I wouldn’t have written what I did and I don’t think I’m nitpicking.

don’t think most people want to see Joss broken or humbled. We just want to end his influence on our culture, or failing that reduce it and lessen his ability to get new things made that will influence the culture.

Rereading what you replied to, I find it very hard to see where you could possibly conclude that I think we can erase the influence a creator has already had, other than perhaps going out of your way to find something to disagree with.

I don’t expect him to face any punishment. As long as he doesn’t have power, it’s just about not putting my money on things with his name, and doing what I can to contribute to making his reputation as a creator very clear that his name on a project is repellant to a significant portion of potential consumers.

Either way, the rest of the post should have made it clear.

So, yeah, regardless of your intent, you came across as needlessly nitpicking. Not to mention performing the obnoxiously common practice of discrediting the very idea of accountability.

 

[Bolares]

What about the Iliad? The Iliad starts with a debate about the correct distribution of comfort women.

Or Journey to the West, which talks about slaves and eunuchs just about every other page?

Great use of whataboutism

 

[MGibster]

Rereading what you replied to, I find it very hard to see where you could possibly conclude that I think we can erase the influence a creator has already had, other than perhaps going out of your way to find something to disagree with.

Based on what you wrote, it looked to me like you wanted to try. Sorry about that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Based on what you wrote, it looked to me like you wanted to try. Sorry about that.

Fine, it happens. Maybe just don’t assume extremely foolish naïveté on the part of people you’re having a discussion with.

 

[Umbran]

I get really tired of this sort of nitpicking.

Nobody forced you to reply.

Folks, can we not do this? Please? Thanks.

 

[Deset Gled]

It was kind of right when the show had ended that it started getting recognized the 'nice guy' was actually kind of a toxic trope. TV and movies of the 80-90s had a lot of coded as nerd male characters (Ross on Friends, Niles on Frasier, etc.) that were secretly in love with female friends and if said friend would just recognize how perfect they were for each other (instead of the jock stereotype she really dated) than things would be great (but then the plot arc would be over, so endlessly cycle on this until the audience is sick of it and them getting together at show end is unrealistic but at the same time inevitable). Which is a longwinded way of saying yes it should have been a red flag all along, but it also seems reasonable that it didn't stand out given by what it was surrounded.

One difference, to me at least, is that Xander isn't supposed to be a hero and is intentionally shown to be a very flawed character. Those flaws aren't supposed to age well, they're supposed to be flaws. And there are many times when he faces consequences. Relating to your example, Xander not only doesn't end up with Buffy, but it's shown that his hang ups about her ruins other parts of his life.

 

[Willie the Duck]

One difference, to me at least, is that Xander isn't supposed to be a hero and is intentionally shown to be a very flawed character. Those flaws aren't supposed to age well, they're supposed to be flaws. And there are many times when he faces consequences. Relating to your example, Xander not only doesn't end up with Buffy, but it's shown that his hang ups about her ruins other parts of his life.

Oh certainly, I alluded to that on my first post in-thread. There are multiple layers to why this wasn't notable. One is that Xander being flawed as part of the character, but I also think that a reason was that the 'Nice Guy' (by which we mean a not nice guy) was not a recognized toxic trope at the time.

 

[Ryujin]

Oh certainly, I alluded to that on my first post in-thread. There are multiple layers to why this wasn't notable. One is that Xander being flawed as part of the character, but I also think that a reason was that the 'Nice Guy' (by which we mean a not nice guy) was not a recognized toxic trope at the time.

Oh, it was a trope at the time all right. It just wasn't an ironic term.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Oh, it was a trope at the time all right. It just wasn't an ironic term.

That's what I mean by toxic. But yes, I did discuss what a nice guy at the time was.

 

[Dire Bare]

What about the Iliad? The Iliad starts with a debate about the correct distribution of comfort women.

Or Journey to the West, which talks about slaves and eunuchs just about every other page?

Both are classics and rightly so . . . . and most folks have not read them. They hold a great deal of influence on modern art, because many artists and intellectuals have read them, but the average person? Nope.