Joss Whedon Allegations: The Undoing of the "Buffy" Creator

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Elsewhere, I said that I wasn't going to start a thread about the recent interview from Joss Whedon. But it seems like at least a few folks have something to say about it, so I made a liar out of myself. And fair enough; Joss Whedon is (among other things) an icon of Geek Media. He has been an undeniable influence across multiple fandoms...there was a time not too long ago that he was being hailed as the best director and best writer in the industry. And then...boom.

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Intro from Independent.co.uk:

Joss Whedon is being criticized for his defense of the allegations made against him by Gal Gadot and Ray Fisher. On Monday, the writer-director finally addressed accusations of toxic misconduct on the set of Justice League and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which have shattered his reputation since 2020.​
Fisher, who played Cyborg in Justice League, was the first to speak out against the director.​
Wonder Woman actor Gal Gadot also spoke about her "issues" with Whedon, telling Israeli channel N12 that "He kind of threatened my career and said if I did something, he will make sure my career is miserable."​
In response to this, Whedon brushed off the criticism while speaking to New York Magazine, stating that Gadot "misunderstood" him as "English is not her first language."​


The Undoing of Joss Whedon
The Buffy creator, once an icon of Hollywood feminism, is now an outcast accused of misogyny. How did he get here?

The full "New York Magazine" article by Lila Shapiro can be read here.
 
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CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
From an earlier thread:

My wife and I would spend hours watching Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog and shotgunning episodes of Firefly back when we were dating, and chatting about why "Hush" was the best episode of Buffy ever filmed (you know it's true), and so on.

And then...Dollhouse happened. There was a cracking noise in the snowy mountains above the village.

And then the divorce, and the open letter from his ex-wife. A rumbling noise in the distance.

And then Charisma Carpenter came forward, and then others came forward as well, and the avalanche was all around us.

We haven't watched any of his stuff in years. And that's kinda sad, considering how important his work was to our dating relationship. All that talent, buried under bad publicity, personal failings, and shockingly terrible responses. That interview was the first thing that Joss Whedon has produced in years, and all I could do was cringe and facepalm while I read it.
 
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Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
As I said, has anyone in geekdom fallen so far and so fast as this guy?

And to pop up with this self-serving BS? It used to be that Joss Whedon was known for writing the quippiest, hippest material.

Now he only opens his mouth to change feet.


I hope that he stops, please. Some of his past work (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dr. Horrible, the first Avengers) remains stone-cold classics. I have amazing memories of the times when I watched Buffy, and the people I watched it with, and the amazing conversations that we had. I don't want him to continue wrecking that.
 



Bolares

Hero
I have amazing memories of the times when I watched Buffy, and the people I watched it with, and the amazing conversations that we had. I don't want him to continue wrecking that.
I have the same struggle with the harry potter series (just an example, not trying to move this thread to that can of worms). It's a choice between still having access to stuff that brings you so much joy and giving money to people who use their fame to make the world worse. My decision was to keep consuming HP stuff, but only by "alternative means" (Ahoy!)
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
The stuff that happened to Charisma was an open secret for a very long time. Dude ruined a perfectly good show because he threw a fit over his lead actress getting pregnant.

Watching it at the time, I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes, but everything about her character at the end of her run on Angel was so off and wrong. It didn't ruin the show, but in fairness, I also have had no desire to re-watch Angel since I found out. So maybe it did?
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Watching it at the time, I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes, but everything about her character at the end of her run on Angel was so off and wrong. It didn't ruin the show, but in fairness, I also have had no desire to re-watch Angel since I found out. So maybe it did?
Folks in my social (media) circle have tried to go back and re-watch Buffy and Angel. The kindest thing I've heard is that "it hits different" today, in light of these allegations. Especially Angel and Dollhouse.

I really enjoyed Cabin in the Woods when it came out in theaters, but that was the only time I saw it. (Can't decide if I liked the merman or the unicorn best....) I always have a craving to re-watch it every Halloween, but I've never been able to do it...partly because I don't want to spend more of my money on it, and partly because I don't want to ruin my good memories of the film.
 


Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Folks in my social (media) circle have tried to go back and re-watch Buffy and Angel. The kindest thing I've heard is that "it hits different" today, in light of these allegations. Especially Angel and Dollhouse.

I don't know. I think Buffy still holds up pretty well. I re-watched that after the whole thing came out. I've probably seen it all the way through five times since it aired (like you, it holds a special spot for me). Some things hit a little different, but it's still good TV with some amazing characters. And some episodes, like Hush or Once More With Feeling, are just stone-cold classics.

But while I appreciated Dollhouse at the time ... there is just no way I could go back and re-watch that.
 



I don't know. I think Buffy still holds up pretty well. I re-watched that after the whole thing came out. I've probably seen it all the way through five times since it aired (like you, it holds a special spot for me). Some things hit a little different, but it's still good TV with some amazing characters. And some episodes, like Hush or Once More With Feeling, are just stone-cold classics.

But while I appreciated Dollhouse at the time ... there is just no way I could go back and re-watch that.
The stuff that best holds up well now -- Buffy, Dr. Horrible, Avengers #1 is stuff where everyone is an actual teenager (and thus muddling their way through life by trial and error and we kinda expect them to make mistakes), or deliberately flagged as deeply flawed characters (who we either love watching fall, or root for figuring things out). So if Xander seems a little like a 'nice guy' of the incel variety or Dr. Horrible says he loves Penny but can't turn away from from his selfish behavior or the Avengers act like bickering siblings until they pull it all together and best Loki in the third act, it... well it just fits. Shows involving adults (and not Byronic figures like four-color comic superheroes) making adult decisions -- like Angel and Dollhouse-- well, those seem a little more off. Firefly, by that measure, is about half-and-half. Mind you, it's my favorite of his works, but honestly I think that has a lot to do with the cast chemistry rather than the premise or writing or the like.

Just goes to show the danger in deifying anyone (Whedon, JK Rowling, MJ, Gygax, etc).
To paraphrase XKCD, 'let me tell you about how important Ender's Game was to my childhood...'
 


darjr

I crit!
I kept bouncing off Enders Game. Something about it always led me to setting it down and just walking away. Can’t really point out exactly what though. Or remember, that’s how much I just eventually didn’t care.
 



Bolares

Hero
I watched the movie and found the premise and twist interesting, but soon after I found out who wrote it and lost interest completelly
 


embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
I suspect the article was some attempt to rehab his image. At least for me, it didn't work.

Among the lowlights was his trading on the name of his mother's student for feminist cred; the likely deliberate elision of Television Without Pity (the unnamed blog referred to in the article) which is galling if only for the fact that TWOP was run by two women who, arguably, pioneered media criticism in the 21st century, and; the complete sidelining of the fact that Joss Whedon's family has been in the TV business for decades.
 

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