July Rules Update DMG: Errata needed?

[Asmor]

Lvl	Low At Will	Medium At Will	High At Will	Low Limited	Medium Limited	High Limited
1	1d6+4		1d8+5		2d4+7		1d8+4		2d4+7		3d4+8
2	1d8+4		1d10+5		2d6+6		1d8+5		2d6+6		3d4+10
3	1d8+4		1d10+6		2d6+8		1d10+5		2d6+8		3d4+11
4	1d8+5		1d12+6		2d6+9		1d10+6		2d6+9		3d6+10
5	1d10+5		1d12+7		2d8+8		1d12+6		2d8+8		3d6+11
6	1d10+5		1d12+8		2d8+10		1d12+7		2d8+10		3d6+13
7	1d10+6		1d12+9		2d8+11		1d12+8		2d8+11		3d6+14
8	1d12+6		1d12+10		2d10+10		1d12+9		2d10+10		3d8+13
9	1d12+7		1d12+11		2d10+11		1d12+10		2d10+11		3d8+15
10	1d12+8		1d12+12		2d10+12		1d12+11		2d10+12		3d8+16
11	1d12+8		2d8+11		3d8+12		2d8+10		3d8+12		4d6+18
12	1d12+9		2d10+10		3d8+13		2d8+11		3d8+13		4d6+19
13	1d12+10		2d10+11		3d8+14		2d10+10		3d8+14		4d8+17
14	1d12+10		2d10+12		3d8+16		2d10+11		3d8+16		4d8+18
15	1d12+11		2d10+13		3d8+17		2d10+12		3d8+17		4d8+20
16	1d12+12		2d12+12		3d10+15		2d10+12		3d10+15		4d8+22
17	1d12+13		2d12+13		3d10+16		2d10+13		3d10+16		4d8+23
18	1d12+14		2d12+14		3d10+17		2d12+12		3d10+17		4d10+21
19	1d12+14		2d12+15		3d10+19		2d12+13		3d10+19		4d10+22
20	1d12+15		2d12+16		3d10+20		2d12+14		3d10+20		4d10+24
21	2d10+12		3d8+17		4d8+20		3d8+15		4d8+20		5d8+25
22	2d10+12		3d10+15		4d8+22		3d8+16		4d8+22		5d8+27
23	2d10+13		3d10+16		4d8+23		3d8+17		4d8+23		5d8+28
24	2d12+12		3d10+17		4d10+20		3d10+15		4d10+20		5d10+25
25	2d12+13		3d10+18		4d10+21		3d10+16		4d10+21		5d10+27
26	2d12+14		3d10+19		4d10+22		3d10+17		4d10+22		5d10+28
27	2d12+14		3d10+20		4d10+24		3d10+18		4d10+24		5d10+30
28	2d12+15		3d12+18		4d10+25		3d10+19		4d10+25		5d10+31
29	2d12+16		3d12+19		4d10+26		3d10+20		4d10+26		5d10+33
30	2d12+16		3d12+20		4d12+24		3d12+18		4d12+24		5d10+34

This is the table I'm going to be using. The algorithm behind the selections of dice is as follows:

The base for a heroic-tier, medium, at-will attack is 1 die.
-1 die for low-damage attacks (but always a minimum of one die)
+1 die for high-damage attacks
+1 die limited attacks
+1 die for level 11+
+1 die for level 21+

The idea being more powerful attacks get more dice, which leads to larger swings in numbers and larger crits.

Average damage of attack is Level + 8. -25% for low, +25% for high, +25% for limited.

The average damage split about evenly between random (dice) and static (modifier). I use the number of dice and how much damage should be random to decide which type of dice to use. This is a bit looser since I've constrained myself to use only d6 through d12, and towards the upper end of the scale where the d12s start to top out the static damage takes a larger portion of the pie.

 

[keterys]

Whatcha doing for 'rounding', Asmor? It looks a bit odd for medium at-will to be 1d8+5 and low limited to be 1d8+4, when they should be the same however you turn 9 into 8.5 or 9.5.

Also, I'd suggest dropping the d4 entirely. 2d6+5 is much shinier than 2d4+7, ditto 3d6+5,7, and 8 instead of 3d4+8,10,and 11

Now I'm curious if it's possible to redo the chart to remove all the half bumps - 2d6+2 for 1st level instead of 1d8+4 or +5 kinda thing.

 

[Asmor]

Whatcha doing for 'rounding', Asmor? It looks a bit odd for medium at-will to be 1d8+5 and low limited to be 1d8+4, when they should be the same however you turn 9 into 8.5 or 9.5.

Not a rounding error so much as an issue of terminology and imprecision thereof. Specifically, when I say "-25%" and "+25%", what I mean is multiply by .75 or 1.25, respectively. Thus a low-limited attack is actually 15/16 (~93%) of a medium at-will, and a high limited attack is 25/16 (~156%).

Also, I'd suggest dropping the d4 entirely. 2d6+5 is much shinier than 2d4+7, ditto 3d6+5,7, and 8 instead of 3d4+8,10,and 11

There are no d4s in the chart... o_0

Now I'm curious if it's possible to redo the chart to remove all the half bumps - 2d6+2 for 1st level instead of 1d8+4 or +5 kinda thing.

Anythings possible... Personally I think it's not worth the effort. YMMV.

 

[Jhaelen]

Jhaelen, do you have a twitter account? I want to give credit where it is due.

Thanks again, this is really awesome.

I'm glad you find it useful

I don't have a twitter account, sorry. After skimming over weem's thread about twitter I decided that maybe it is something I should look into but didn't get around to do it yet.

 

[keterys]

Not a rounding error so much as an issue of terminology and imprecision thereof. Specifically, when I say "-25%" and "+25%", what I mean is multiply by .75 or 1.25, respectively. Thus a low-limited attack is actually 15/16 (~93%) of a medium at-will, and a high limited attack is 25/16 (~156%).

Ah. I saw it more like a sliding scale - ergo, less columns - but that's reasonable.

There are no d4s in the chart... o_0

Psst. Scroll right. First row of Medium Limited and first three rows of high Limited.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think this is a little too math intensive for many DMs. One would have to look this up on the chart and write damage down for each monster before each encounter, or at least each non-MM3 monster.

How about a system of:

Heroic = 2D6 + monster level
Paragon = 3D6 + monster level
Epic = 4D6 + monster level

for standard monster attacks? Brute and other strong attacks are D10s instead of D6s.

Area attacks are:

Heroic = 1D8 + half monster level
Paragon = 2D8 + half monster level
Epic = 3D8 + half monster level

This has the advantage that it is easy to remember. The DM can then increase or decrease damage for a given monster by upping or lowering the die size. For especially powerful monsters, he could add an entire extra die of damage. For weak monsters, drop a die.

Also, using two dice at the lowest levels for standard attacks minimizes swinginess as well.

 

[Asmor]

Psst. Scroll right. First row of Medium Limited and first three rows of high Limited.

Well that's embarassing. >_> I actually wrote this thing up a couple weeks ago and just updated it with the new math. At the time I thought I'd not allowed d4s as usable, and I swear I did a search on "d4" and didn't find anything before replying... My bad.

 

[darkjedi26]

How do you know which attacks get low, avg or high? Looking at updating my MM with your chart, but how do I know which attack gets which value?

 

[SabreCat]

How do you know which attacks get low, avg or high? Looking at updating my MM with your chart, but how do I know which attack gets which value?

I'm not sure which table you're referring to (WotC's, Jhaelen's, or Asmor's), but keterys's post (http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-dis...-masters-guide-errata-needed.html#post5237269) has the guideline I use.

 

[darkjedi26]

I'm not sure which table you're referring to (WotC's, Jhaelen's, or Asmor's), but keterys's post (http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-dis...-masters-guide-errata-needed.html#post5237269) has the guideline I use.

That clears it up, thanks!