Keen Luck Blade of Subtlety

[foxwick]

How would you price such a weapon, in terms of overall bonus and cost?

Each on their own:
Keen is a +1 bonus cost
Luck blade is +2 shortsword that gives a +1 luck bonus on saves and 1/day save re-roll
Shortsword of Subtlety is a +1 shortsword that gives a +4 bonus to attack and damage on sneak attacks

 

[Darklone]

LuckBlade is horribly expensive IIRC... it's that thing with wishes when it's empty?

 

[foxwick]

Yeah, it would be the empty (no wishes) version - 22060gp

And the Sword of Subtlety has a list price of 22310gp.

 

[Salthorae]

LuckBlade is horribly expensive IIRC... it's that thing with wishes when it's empty?

The Luck Blade is 22,060gp with 0 wishes... with 3 wishes it's 142,960gp per SRD.
Sword of Subtlety is 22,310gp

So with the base +2 (+1 and Keen), even if you just combined them you'd have over a 50k gp weapon...

310 gp Shortsword
18000 gp +3 (+2 Enhancemend +1 (Keen))
2000 gp +1 Luck bonus to Saves
11750 gp reroll 1/day (cost left over from Luck Blade after subtracting all other costs...?)
- not too shabby for what amounts to a feat in Complete Scoundrel
20000 gp +4 to Att/Dam when Sneak Attacking (S.Subtlety cost - +1 short sword cost)
---------
52060 gp

Not sure that I would allow it at that price for all the neat functions it has, but that would be my cost estimate for it...

 

[foxwick]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown!

So, if 52k gp seems a bit low (and I agree), and if you wanted to put this weapon into a +X bonus slot - would you say it was a +6 bonus weapon (+2 bonus, +1 bonus for keen, +1 bonus for luck, +1 bonus for reroll, +1 bonus for sneak attack ), costing 72k gp? Or is that too high?

 

[Diirk]

The sneak attack thing is much more than +1, and is imo quite overpriced. Its more expensive than a flat +3 sword, and generally sneak attacking is when you least need the extra attack and damage.

 

[Salthorae]

The sneak attack thing is much more than +1, and is imo quite overpriced. Its more expensive than a flat +3 sword, and generally sneak attacking is when you least need the extra attack and damage.

I don't know, personally I want all the to hit bonuses I can get when Sneak Attacking, nothing worse than a missed sneak attack...

And if you're flanking, your +2 sword is now effectively a +6 sword in addition to the normal +2 for flanking (+8 total from flanking & sword to hit)

Avg Damage with this sword 5th level rogue/str10 = 20/hit
3.5 (sword) + 6 (enhancement/"subtlety") + 10.5 (minimum 1d6 SA to make use of "Subtlety" dont' forget)

That's not bad damage for a rogue. Of course you'd have to be about 13th level to buy the sword by the Wealth per level rules (and damage would be much higher/hit if it was all rogue)

Rogue 7/Ftr 6 would give you three attacks and an avg dam of 23.5/hit on SA

But I digress...

Foxwick - The more I think about it 52-55k sounds pretty close to right for me. That may just be my player greed talking now though

 

[1500run]

*edit* i misread something, and my post was therefore senseless. my bad.

 

[Diirk]

I don't know, personally I want all the to hit bonuses I can get when Sneak Attacking, nothing worse than a missed sneak attack...

And if you're flanking, your +2 sword is now effectively a +6 sword in addition to the normal +2 for flanking (+8 total from flanking & sword to hit)

Its not clear in the way the sword of subtlety is worded, but all the other weapons use the higher bonus they get under certain conditions instead of the lower bonus, rather than as well as.

For example, the Sword of the Planes. Only functions as a +4 sword against outsiders and while on certain planes (not prime, elemental, ethereal or astral). In other conditions, its +1 - +3, yet costs more than a +3, making its cost effectivess questionable.

Also see Shatterspike and Dwarven Thrower.. I think Sword of Subtlety is the only one that isn't very explicitly worded as to leave no doubt. However the replacing the +1 with a +4 interpretation seems more consistant with sword of the planes.

Regardless, my main problem with sword of subtlety is that against constructs, undead etc - anything you aren't sneak attacking - you're paying 22000 for a +1 sword (52000 or whatever for a +2 sword in your case). I'd rather just pay 18000 for a +3 sword which will benefit me in ALL situations, rather than pay more for a sword that will only slightly benefit me in the situations in which I'm already very strong.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Its not clear in the way the sword of subtlety is worded, but all the other weapons use the higher bonus they get under certain conditions instead of the lower bonus, rather than as well as.

The Sword of Subtlety doesn't get a +4 enhancement bonus (which would not stack with the existing +1 enhancement bonus), nor does it become a +4 sword (which would imply a +4 enhancement bonus); it gains an unnamed bonus, and its existing enhancement bonus is not affected, so the two stack.

Contrast this with the Sword of the Planes, where it's the enhancement bonus that changes, not a new (unnamed) bonus applied.

-Hyp.