Ken Hite Is Lead Designer of VAMPIRE 5th EDITION!

A few days behind the news curve on this one - apologies! Veteran game designer Kenneth Hite, author of Trail of Cthulhu and Night's Black Agents, has been revealed as the lead designer on Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition. Hite announced it via social media, following a live announcement at a World of Darkness event in Berlin -- "Now it can be revealed: I am the Lead Designer for VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE 5th Edition. Some pretty big Doc Martens to fill." There's not a lot more info available yet, but I'll report it as I hear it.

He made a few other comments on social media:

Lore: "It's still in the World of Darkness but it's very much about the 21st century. Our goal is to make it a (dark and horrific) great on-ramp."

More on lore changes: "Mostly timeline advancement but everything you ever read in V:tM was already explicitly from an unreliable narrator."

Mechanics: "Still uses d10s but not Storyteller. So far."

Other World of Darkness games: "I'm only doing VAMPIRE. Other games are other games by other designers."

On Pelgrane Press: "I won't have a lot of time for Pelgrane work in the near future."

On vampires: Hite once said "If it were up to me, nobody would ever get to play the good vampire again in any medium. It is, sadly, not up to me." When somebody rather aggressively asked about this in the context of this news, he replied that "Vampires are monsters, but in V:tM the possibility of moral redemption is not entirely remote."

 

[PMárk]

Man, I'm so confused. Pretend like the last time I knew anything substantive about any WoD product, Mummy: the Resurrection was hot off the press.

Sigh... I understand your confusion, welcome to the wonderful clusterf*ck soap opera, which is woD's publication history since the early 2000's...

Anyway, I'll try to encompass it into something short.

Are both still in print/supported? If I found a group at the game store and they invited me to play "WoD", Vampire, or Mage without any "the Descriptor" should I assume one way or the other?

The story goes like that:

1. The old WoD setting and rules system ended in 2004. They did the time of judgement books, then shut down the whole thing. It was dead after that. Although plenty of people played it after that and didn't switch for the new thing.

2. After that, they published the New WoD (it was just WoD, but everyone dubbed it 'new'). It wasn't a sequel to old WoD, not even a reboot, it was a total reimagining of the old lines into new games, like Vampire the Requiem and Mage The Awakening. It worked with the same concepts (a game about vampires in the modern world, etc.), but it was very different from WoD and again had nothing to do with the old game, but some names and concepts and the core of the rules (d10s, dots on the sheet, etc.). NWoD had a some years of good run.

3. Much later, and I will skip some thing here (among them the axing of the MMo and firing nearly everyone from WW itself, by CCG), to keep my sanity, Onyx Path ( a small publishing company, consisting of old WW guard and new talents) picked up the WW rpg tabletop line as a licence and started making new books again. Among them, they did the Vampire 20th anniversary edition, which was planned really as such, a love letter to old fans. however it became a big success and led to the revival of all the old games. Werewolf, Mage and recently Changeling (with Wraith in the works) got their 20ths and multiple supplements and met approval from the fanbase. So, after a while, the old WoD and new WoD ran with side to side, similar games, but with different focus and largely a different fanbase, different setting, etc. They're just different games, Like Pathfinder and D&D are different games.

4. Recently, Paradox bought WW and there is a new WW crew, who are developing the new edition of WoD, which will be the continuation of the old, while the new WoD (now called the Chronicles of Darkness, for better brand differentiation) will remain Onyx Path's thing. OP will also do the 20ths to the point when their new editions will come out.

But... they had to define clans, traditions, etc. I assume those were from the oWoD (Mage: the Ascension). Is that accurate?

Simply ask what they're talking about? Masquerade/Ascension/Apocalypse? It's OWoD, likely with the 20th rulesets, sine those are the current editions of OWoD, but it could be that they're playing one of the older editions still. If they talked about Traditions (in the sense of Mage), it's likely be OWoD.

I'd also assumed that it was a one-off nostalgia thing and that the nWoD (Mage: the Awakening) was the mainline support product. Is that wrong?

See above. Yes it was like that for a while, but in the past 6-7 years the OWoD and NWoD are both officially continued and supported. Although, the 20ths don't have much in the metaplot department. The upcoming new edition will advance the metaplot yet again.

By "metaplot", you mean from V:tM, not V:tR, correct?

Yes, absolutely! VtR doesn't have a continuous metaplot. All the NWoD (now CofD) games are essentially sandbox-focused, that's one of the main differences between the two lines.

I hope it helped.

 

[Mercule]

I hope it helped.

Tremendously. Thank you.

I enjoyed the oWoD, but agreed that it had run its course. I like the new setting a bit better, though I'm interested to see the metaplot book.

I guess that makes me more a fan of Chronicles of Darkness, right?

 

[OniDaimyo]

What the hell does he mean moral redemption is now possible? It ALWAYS was! And this whole "oooh its darker now." Give me a break! The game is as dark as the players and ST want it to be. And I don't feel the clanbooks are necessarily "unreliable" its more of a "from this perspective." Honestly? Its just code for "buy our new books cause old ones are old."

 

[PMárk]

Tremendously. Thank you.

You're welcome. It's really a disaster, in hindsight and the WW and OP guys are still explaining to everyone what happened and who is doing what.

I enjoyed the oWoD, but agreed that it had run its course. I like the new setting a bit better, though I'm interested to see the metaplot book.

Beckett's Jyhad Diary is still in the works, but it'll be out soon. It was a huge kickstarter success. It turned out, people still love their metaplot!

Otherwise, I could understand that you liked the new ones better. I never get into the new games as much as into the old ones, although I tried, they just didn't sparkled my eyes as much. I was very happy to get the 20ths and I'm happy (although a bit worried) for V5. Regardless, if you liked them better, then, fortunately, you have books to come, and also, some of the CofD games are into their 2e and they added even new games, like Mummy, Beast and Demon.

There's the OP catalog on drivethru (OP primarily does print-on-demand and pdf): http://drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/4261/Onyx-Path-Publishing?src=browse4261

Up to VtM 20 all are CofD games.

I guess that makes me more a fan of Chronicles of Darkness, right?

Shhh, it's okay, nobody will judge you for that!

 

[Von Ether]

What the hell does he mean moral redemption is now possible? It ALWAYS was!"

But did your players find it tempting to find redemption? Your meta might have been different, but in our WoD heyday, none was interested in getting their humanity back. Maybe he's hoping to find ways to make it more appealing or to make it a much quicker path to NPCdom when start acting like a psychopath?

And this whole "oooh its darker now." Give me a break! The game is as dark as the players and ST want it to be."

True, but some times examples help inspire GMs to get their game moving in certain direction.

Ever play a Lamentations of the Flame Princess adventure? The game engine is B/X D&D, but few people thought of using it for Weird Body Horror Fantasy until LoFP came out, now there's a whole OSR subcultures that's like "Appendix N, Appendix N"

And I don't feel the clanbooks are necessarily "unreliable" its more of a "from this perspective." Honestly? Its just code for "buy our new books cause old ones are old."

Unreliable is a subset of "from my perspective." And most historians will tell you that most of history (Ken's specialty) is from biased or unreliable narrators. Shall we chat about the Black Hand for a while?

Honestly? Its just code for "buy our new books cause old ones are old."

All marketing copy is code for that. But your own books are still good, enjoy them and tell awesome stories. Better yet, if you see a V5 supplement that catches you eye, cherry pick it for your own games.

 

[OniDaimyo]

But did your players find it tempting to find redemption? Your meta might have been different, but in our WoD heyday, none was interested in getting their humanity back. Maybe he's hoping to find ways to make it more appealing or to make it a much quicker path to NPCdom when start acting like a psychopath?

that's a assumption. There were people who definitely wanted their humanity back. Lets consider how much harder it is to resist things like frenzy and self control rolls if you are very low on humanity or path rating? Is he going to try and get rid of paths is my question and honestly I think humanity is bs how it is. It NEEDS to consider self-preservation. Smiling Jack said in Bloodlines that "Self-preservation is a vital part of humanity. My favorite part in fact!" And yet White Wolf has ignored this to penalize players.

 

[Queer Venger]

Man, I'm so confused. Pretend like the last time I knew anything substantive about any WoD product, Mummy: the Resurrection was hot off the press.

Are both still in print/supported? If I found a group at the game store and they invited me to play "WoD", Vampire, or Mage without any "the Descriptor" should I assume one way or the other?


But... they had to define clans, traditions, etc. I assume those were from the oWoD (Mage: the Ascension). Is that accurate?

I'd also assumed that it was a one-off nostalgia thing and that the nWoD (Mage: the Awakening) was the mainline support product. Is that wrong?


By "metaplot", you mean from V:tM, not V:tR, correct?

Ive been confused for years; I thought Onyx Path was the publishing company, (I heard its a company of 2 or 3 staff) and now an official 5e is being released but somehow Onyx Path continues to publish material for World of Darkness...

This confusion will hurt sales, probably has since Onyx Path is strictly POD and they have NO presence in FLGS or booksellers.

I guess now with VtM 5e we'll get published material I can pick up at a store and not wait 3 weeks for POD/shipping.

 

[Von Ether]

that's a assumption. There were people who definitely wanted their humanity back. Lets consider how much harder it is to resist things like frenzy and self control rolls if you are very low on humanity or path rating? Is he going to try and get rid of paths is my question and honestly I think humanity is bs how it is. It NEEDS to consider self-preservation. Smiling Jack said in Bloodlines that "Self-preservation is a vital part of humanity. My favorite part in fact!" And yet White Wolf has ignored this to penalize players.

Not so much an assumption, but just observation of the local meta over 7 years of play with many players in both TT and LARPing. YMMV with your local meta.

 

[coyote6]

What the hell does he mean moral redemption is now possible? It ALWAYS was! And this whole "oooh its darker now." Give me a break! The game is as dark as the players and ST want it to be. And I don't feel the clanbooks are necessarily "unreliable" its more of a "from this perspective." Honestly? Its just code for "buy our new books cause old ones are old."

I took it to be in reference to his previous statement (quoted immediate prior): if it was up to him, no one would play the "good" vampire; but for VtM5, moral redemption is possible.

 

[Francisco Grillo]

On vampires: Hite once said "If it were up to me, nobody would ever get to play the good vampire again in any medium. It is, sadly, not up to me." When somebody rather aggressively asked about this in the context of this news, he replied that "Vampires are monsters, but in V:tM the possibility of moral redemption is not entirely remote."

This is so dumb, the struggle of a good vampire with the beast or the tainted world around it is so fun to play. I do agree that a good vampire is not the norm though.

I have friends that don't play VTM exactly because its too dark and prefer D&D or other fantasy worlds. Which by itself is a stupid remark cause its on the Storyteller to shape the world at his will.

This, lets use 5th edition terms, COMPULSION, to paint the world setting black or white misses on so many storytelling opportunities when you paint your setting grey. I hope the meta plot considers this, I don't agree with Mr. Hite, a sentient monster can be good and do good things, and that tortured existence is really fun to role play.