D&D 5E L&L 1/13/14: Low-Level Characters in D&D Next

[Majoru Oakheart]

Just have them face a pack of Kobold Dragonshields.
1) Shield Block: The kobold imposes disadvantage on a melee or ranged attack that is against a creature within the kobold’s reach.

Keep in mind that Shield Block is a reaction. Each kobold can make only one reaction a round. The target of the attack needs to be within their reach as well. Which means that if they were standing in a line, the ones on the end could be protected from one attack by the kobold right next to them. After that, all the attacks would be made without disadvantage. Maybe if they were standing in a weird 2 line formation where the back line was doing nothing but protecting the front line, they might be able to protect any kobold who wasn't at the end of a line from 5 attacks per round. The ones at the end can still only be protected from 3 attacks per round. Nothing at all protects them from spells and lined up like that a burning hands could kill many of them.

Given that most 1st level PCs have +4 or +5 to hit for enough damage to kill one of these kobolds in one hit, they are a little powerful, but certainly not horribly broken. Their AC was likely set back when most PCs got bigger bonuses to hit.

 

[Mistwell]

Keep in mind that Shield Block is a reaction. Each kobold can make only one reaction a round. The target of the attack needs to be within their reach as well. Which means that if they were standing in a line, the ones on the end could be protected from one attack by the kobold right next to them. After that, all the attacks would be made without disadvantage. Maybe if they were standing in a weird 2 line formation where the back line was doing nothing but protecting the front line, they might be able to protect any kobold who wasn't at the end of a line from 5 attacks per round. The ones at the end can still only be protected from 3 attacks per round. Nothing at all protects them from spells and lined up like that a burning hands could kill many of them.

Given that most 1st level PCs have +4 or +5 to hit for enough damage to kill one of these kobolds in one hit, they are a little powerful, but certainly not horribly broken. Their AC was likely set back when most PCs got bigger bonuses to hit.

I was not speaking in theory. We had a major encounter with them, and they kicked my players butts, and my players are not tactically weak. The mage was low on spells, but that happens a LOT at low levels. Of course they were able to kill some, and eventually my players won out, but I am saying they are substantially more difficult to kill than a normal 1st level encounter. Nor did I call it horribly broken...he was asking for fantasy Viet Nam, and I was offering a real example from my game that did OK at meeting his request.

Now if you have a different example from your own playtesting experiences, I'd love to hear it.

 

[DMZ2112]

There isn't a whole lot of information here... but I'd buy it for a dollar. Thumbs up.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Now if you have a different example from your own playtesting experiences, I'd love to hear it.

No, I only used these creatures once. I think there was only 3 of them. I did think that if I used too many of them they might become very powerful. Though, I do believe that the limitation of once per round on their shield block does hinder it quite effectively. It sounded like you were letting them use it on all attacks for a round.

 

[Mistwell]

No, I only used these creatures once. I think there was only 3 of them. I did think that if I used too many of them they might become very powerful. Though, I do believe that the limitation of once per round on their shield block does hinder it quite effectively. It sounded like you were letting them use it on all attacks for a round.

Nope. It was just that, due to their positioning, the PCs couldn't gang up on just one Kobold at a time (a couple could at once, but that was it). There were 5 PCs and 10 Kobolds. Each Kobold had a very high attack bonus due to that Pack ability, and it often took two attacks just to have a chance to bring down one Kobold (and at first level you're only getting one attack per PC). It was rough.

 

[Rhenny]

I think it is absolutely essential that D&D Next make the first few levels weaker and easier to manage. There are more reasons for that even for veteran players. (I've been DMing and playing the game quite a lot over the past year).

1) I'm sure that WoTC has received data that shows how a good number of folk (even veterans) want a chance to play simpler more frail PCs, at least to start). I think from what I've read (sorry I can't sight source) is that most D&D campaigns fizzle before the get to really high levels anyway and most of that occurs because the game gets too complicated. In my experiences over 30 years, I've always felt an urge to end a campaign before level 14 or so. It may be that my preference is to run simpler more frail PCs.

2) The game becomes more dynamic if low level play feels different from mid-level play, from higher level play, from super-high level play. This gives people the opportunity to develop the zero to hero, which again some people like.

3) It is far easier to add than to take away. For people who don't want the frail simple PC, the party can begin at higher levels, or the DM can even give more choices to the 1st level players. In the WotC threads someone came up with a great idea to let a first level PC give up 2 attribute points (either +1 in 2 abilities, or +2 in one) to take a feat right off the bat at 1st level. For veteran players that might be a cool choice (personally, I like variety in my PCs rather than pure power...so for players like me, that would work). Having to play 0 level or negative levels, or have handicaps placed on more powerful 1st level PCs marginalizes the choice to play weaker, simpler PCs.

4) In my experience with D&D Next, the simpler PCs at lower level have actually forced my players (some veterans and some newbies) to think more like their PCs and roleplay more in line with their character concepts (background, class and race fluff and crunch). When players don't have to sort out too many powers or figure out how to use too many abilities, they relax and they do things that the think their PC should do, not just what it says they can do on the character sheet. Once the campaign begins with interaction and roleplaying, for me, it is much more thrilling.

These ideas, plus others that people have mentioned makes it nearly impossible for WoTC to do anything else but make the first few levels simpler and more frail. I believe they are on the right track.

 

[XunValdorl_of_Kilsek]

I like the fact of not having to rely on a power to handle situations. I always found in playing 4th edition that whenever a situation came up, people were frantically looking through their powers to see if there was something they could use to solve it. Basically just pressing a button to sort the problem.

 

[XunValdorl_of_Kilsek]

I have always believed in the notion that everyone has to start somewhere and 1st level is the perfect starting point. I have also found that players who have to really work hard and bring their character from to zero to a hero has more respect for that character. They are willing to stick with that character instead of jumping ship every time a new build comes iut.

 

[Zaran]

This is a good point, but one that's quite easily fixed - they should offer one or more fixed packages of spells for the new player to choose from. So, if they're a fire-based Wizard they should choose the fire package, for an enchanter choose the appropriate package, and so on. That way, it's reduced down to a single choice between a handful of easily-understood options.

(And, for the more advanced player, of course, they can just offer a free choice of the 33 spells.)

Do this with all the classes and give me a level 1 feat option.