L4W Discussion Thread V

[stonegod]

As a point of order, an Avalanche Hammer property only applies to the Avalanche Hammer specifically. KD might be thinking the Vanguard weapon (which also applies on a charge); but I'm fine w/ it being that way.

As for my position: The reason the rule in AV does is not used is because the Rule's Compendium is the rule. Essentially, except for rule subsystems not introduced in the RC (e.g., double weapons), the RC is the source. Even Cunning Weapons, the example uses in the AV quote, was changed explicitly to "when attacking with this weapon". Using the AV rule also creates an unsymmetry between weapons and implements, which I find distasteful and is not the directions that rules have been moving as evidenced by the PH3 and RC updates (thus, if Metavoid's character is using the Prime Shot dagger as an implement, all of this is for naught anyway as the rules are clear on that already). The game should not be different for those with just the RC and those with the RC & AV (except where the AV introduces new subsystems—and weapon properties are not subsystems).

That being said: Still not a judge over here.

 

[KarinsDad]

While L4W uses all the rules, we try to use them in an accessible way, and that means not requiring people to know stuff that's tucked into books that they might not have.

Is this another way of saying "We use all of the rules except for when we do not"?

Either you use all of the rules (shy of specific house rules and rules that have been explicitly revised in latter versions of rules), or you don't.

According to what is written, the rule is currently one way and shouldn't be ignored. If people feel strongly enough about the rule, then they should make a proposal to change it.


By not following ALL of the rules, you are changing the rules for those players who do have all of the source material. From their perspective, the rule is accessible. They might question why the judges aren't following the rule or why a different player is allowed to break the rule.

That fact that it is not there is either a massive oversight or an indication that the designers didn't want it to be that way after all.

It could be a minor oversight. There are at least 25 source books that have rules in them and literally thousands of rules. It's easy to miss one. One cannot conclude designer intent from an omission.

As a point of order, an Avalanche Hammer property only applies to the Avalanche Hammer specifically. KD might be thinking the Vanguard weapon (which also applies on a charge); but I'm fine w/ it being that way.

No, I meant what I wrote. I realize that AH doesn't apply because of the specifics of its property, but that part of my discussion was on rules philosophy not on a given rule. Does it really make sense for a weapon in the primary hand to be able to do fire damage because a weapon in the off hand is on fire. Well yes, it makes sense if the fire weapon states that it gives this ability to a different weapon, but it doesn't make much sense if it doesn't. The fire weapon should do fire damage, the weapon in the other hand should do whatever it does.

The word Property when applied to an object has a meaning in English. This item has this property. If you are using this item with your attack, then the attack gains that property. Course, rules philosophy doesn't mean much in a specific rules discussion, I was just pointing out why I thought the AV rule is the way it is. Balance and consistency.

That being said: Still not a judge over here.

Yup. Me neither.

I just enjoy rules discussions.

 

[Mewness]

There may be many books with rules in them, but the generally applicable ones are in the Rules Compendium. At least, that's been my experience in play. I can't remember the last time I looked for a generally applicable rule and it wasn't in there. I don't have the Adventurer's Vault, and I'm going to continue playing the game using the rules I can see.

 

[MetaVoid]

OK, how do I make a proposal?

And I wouldn't want to avoid the rules or make some house rule, I just wanted a clarification if this is viable combination (as Monk guide on WotC site suggests) or not. As I said, 1 damage will neither make it or break it and there are other more powerful options (such as eberron shards), but I really like the concept of ki focus attacks and thus, I look for always on properties or those that don't require the weapon to be used...

 

[stonegod]

That is a slight different issue, though: You can either use a ki focus or a weapon, not both during an attack. That's settled rules.

Proposals in general are made in the L4W forum.

 

[MetaVoid]

Hmmm, maybe I wasn't clear in my initial description. This is the setup:
Attack with Ki Focus through Ki Sickle(which adds 2 damage to Flurry of Blows AFTER THE ATTACK IS RESOLVED) holding Prime shot dagger in the off hand.

Assuming the attack through the sickle, it's properties wouldn't function on the attack (and they don't even if I attack with it since they function only on FoB).

The question was: would in this kind of setup Prime Shot dagger add one more damage to the attack assuming Drew is closest to the enemy (since Property has the condition which can be satisfied easily for melee character and no limitations along hte lines "if you attack with this weapon".

 

[H.M.Gimlord]

Pardon me for cutting in with a different topic, but does anyone know if there are chached pages for our old "blog" pages? Some of the posts I made to mine differ from their backups, and I'm wondering if I can find them.

 

[Neurotic]

Pardon me for cutting in with a different topic, but does anyone know if there are chached pages for our old "blog" pages? Some of the posts I made to mine differ from their backups, and I'm wondering if I can find them.

In google type the following:
cache: <link to the forums you're looking for>

and cross your fingers

You can type general search terms as normal, but more precise you are, more chance you get the cache you need

 

[renau1g]

A quick note to everyone, I'll be slow this week and away from Friday to Monday. I'm moving so my free time will be more focused on packing up boxes. I expect the weekend to be slow around here anyway, it's Memorial Day in the US I believe.

 

[Someone]

Can I ask the judges to have a look at this thread?