LEB Discussion Thread '10

[renau1g]

I believe in the charter it mentions "lazy way" which is a carryover from L4W. Really it's not a big deal.

re: hand typing in math, then the summary isn't providing a ton of benefit...

 

[KarinsDad]

Even if that was true, the fact that it's not 100% means you can't trust it without checking it manually.

Yup. Which is why I said that it still has to be checked. Why are you focusing on this? It is a non-issue. Regardless of how it is done, it has to be checked.

i did it up until this November. If you know someone that has DDI, it's easy enough to check out the issues and write down anything that's interesting. Not so easy to make up a character using DDI when you're at home and don't have the CB.

Easier for those in the know and who frequently read the articles, but still not easy. Do you think it is easier to search through dozens of limited articles for information for a specific PC?

And who cares how easy that is? Filling out the template is extremely hard and time consuming. The problem is the template, not the access.

The access is a non-issue as long as the template system is maintained for those not willing to shell out $7 for a single month's subscription.

One, several people are on record as either being unable to get DDI or unwilling to get it. That means we need another means to check the math.

I already addressed that. We need two systems. One for those without DDI (the rare case) and one for those willing to use DDI who don't want to be typing a character sheet for 6 or more fricking hours.

You seem to be going over and over again on the same points that I have already addressed. Sorry, but it really seems like you are arguing just to argue.

Two, if you're making changes to the summary then how does it have any validity?

Now I know you are arguing just to argue. I stated that one would add details to the summary, not that they would change it.

And if they send the file to the judges and the DM, then the judges and DM can see at a summary glance whether they modified the summary.

Easier for the players. Easier for the judges. Easier for everyone.

I am unable to get DDI as WOTC can't fix my password problem. The only reason I have it is someone set up an account and gave it to me. There is at least one other here that also has the same issues. there are also several people that have said that don't have the extra money to buy DDI. Forcing people to get DDI doesn't work.

So your argument is that everyone should suffer filling out the template because a few people have to suffer filling out the template?

Sorry, but this excuse sounds pretty darn lame. And why don't you just have WotC drop your account and have you add a new one? There's no way they couldn't drop your Email account from all of their databases.

I'm all for making it easier, however DDI isn't the way IMO.

Suggest a better alternative. I'll wait.

If you wish to debate this, I suggest you start a proposal on this and not fill up the general thread with it.

Whatever.

 

[KarinsDad]

re: hand typing in math, then the summary isn't providing a ton of benefit...

Sure it is.

It gets every single defense correct. It gets the feats correct. It gets skill totals correct. It gets the items correct. It gets the ability scores and hit points and surges and a lot of other stuff correct. It prevents someone from taking a magical axe with an ability that magical axes do not have, etc. It gets the core stuff correct and easily findable within CB.

And here is the important part. WITHOUT HAVING TO FILL IN EVERY SINGLE TINY MODIFIER INTO A MULTIPLE HTML CHARTS. I have to put in Str and Con and Int and Dex and Cha and Wis mods and racial mods and item mods for every single little chart on that page. What a fricking waste of time doing that over and over again. And then, it's easy to make a mistake. I think Language is in 3 places on that page and equipment is in several. What a waste.

And, it allows the player to change his mind easier.

Are you kidding?

It just took me 4 minutes a while back to type in the power info into the summary text. I could have cut and paste it out of DDI faster, but I was just illustrating the point.

And one does not have to worry about screwing up the html tags.


Will it do everything for you?

Nope. One still has to type in background and personality and copy over all of the class and racial features and special stuff on powers. One still has to fill in the details, but it's much easier to do so.

And without the 12 page large cumbersome web page template, one can do this in 4 or 5 web pages and it will easily take 25% to 50% of the time.


It's great that someone went to the trouble of creating that monstrosity, but that person has too much time on their hands.

The system as cumbersome and should be changed.

 

[KarinsDad]

Better yet, have a link to a free .PDF print tool and let everyone print out their character sheet via PDF and supply a link here to it.

Then, the player only has to type in their background info and have a small section if the PDF has an error and done.

Simple. Clean. Easy for anyone willing to save themselves the hassle of the template via CB.

 

[renau1g]

One benefit of the wiki that just posting a link won't offer is the tracking. I can check what changes were made to the PC which helps when reviewing level ups.

 

[Otakkun]

I'm all for anything that removes the template from the equation. As I've always said, it's a pain we don't really need to endure.

 

[hero4hire]

I will say the wiki was a bear for me to grok and it took me several days to finish my character. Mostly because I lost patience with sorting through the html. It isn't user friendly to say the least.
I understand it is easy for the judges to keep track of character changes via the wiki but almost anything else would be preferable to me as a player.
IMHO the CB plusses surely out way the minuses and I would be interested in seeing what percentage of players and would-be players might prefer the Builder over the current wiki.

 

[Antithetist]

I'm a little confused by all the fuss over the templates. I'd never seen them before yesterday, and I don't understand the first thing about html, but I had no trouble getting my character posted. Maybe it took 20 minutes longer due to some initial confusion about what goes where, but once I found the help sheets and got used to the process it don't think it took any longer than filling out any other character sheet. :/

Seems to me that some people are exaggerating just how hard it is, and the benefits of having a standardised format are obvious.

 

[hero4hire]

I am glad you could grok it so quickly. But I was *not* exagerrating. I accidentilly deleted an html character and it took me a very long time to figure out exactly what I did wrong. I can only speak from my experience, but I had issues and would prefer something different.

 

[Antithetist]

Fair enough. Admittedly, a spreadsheet, like the one ScorpiusRisk linked, would be simpler since there's no way to unintentionally mess with the format or maths.