LEB Discussion Thread '10

[evilbob]

Don't get me wrong, DDI is great but if I used it's math, 1/2 the characters I make up would be wrong.

I completely agree with this! (The most recent change updated Winged Horde - wizard at-will - and now its text is missing. They not only have lots of bugs, they keep introducing new ones.)

 

[elecgraystone]

Thank you evilbob! That was starting to bug me. I must have been looking at the errata stuff when I was looking at the martial 2 stuff. That was the power missing info like how much damage it does!

 

[renau1g]

Also look at Mystical Debris, they added some weird wording to is also.

 

[elecgraystone]

LOL You're right and it's only in the CB not the compendium. Looks like a copy/paste error that kept the special line from another power instead of that one. It's not often I see something messed up on one and not the other. I guess they are overworking them to get everything ready for PHB3.

 

[KarinsDad]

Don't get me wrong, DDI is great but if I used it's math, 1/2 the characters I make up would be wrong. Judges should pull out that fine tooth comb for DDI info too.

This does not address the real issue.

DDI is correct probably 99% of the time. There are very few errors like the Winged Horde one and even if one uses DDI, one has to double check it. Nobody is arguing against that (hence the reason your point here is irrelevant). DDI is less prone to error than human error is.

But you avoided my question.

How many non-DDI judges are floating around?

For that matter, how many judges do NOT use DDI to double check a PC? How can one check Dragon material without having a subscription? How can a player add Dragon material to his PC without some form of access to DDI?

It's pretty much a fact of life that the template is a pain in the butt which could be replaced by the summary from CB and sending the DDI file to the DM and the judges if possible. The judges could still check it for correctness and since the summary is just text anyway, the player can manually make any corrections to the summary, just like he makes corrections today to the template.

Sure, there are a small handful of people here on the boards who might want to play without DDI. They would still be required to use the template if they do not use DDI.

And we could make a suggestion that they get a one month subscription in order to create their PC. I know that I as a DM would gladly keep a copy of their PC for leveling purposes if a player used DDI for a single month to create his PC in the first place.


But forcing everyone to do the current labor intensive way limits the number of players here more than doing it the more modern less labor intensive way. It's living in the stone ages elecgraystone.


PS. That stuff about cut and paste on the template being the "lazy way" should be yanked as well. People who cut and paste are not necessarily lazy, they are more efficient than people who manually do everything by hand. Using DDI would be even more efficient.

 

[renau1g]

Problem I have with the summary is that it fails to provide the to hit and damage rolls for powers selected, it is just a list rather than a replacement. There's really nothing to check with it.

 

[KarinsDad]

Problem I have with the summary is that it fails to provide the to hit and damage rolls for powers selected, it is just a list rather than a replacement. There's really nothing to check with it.

Yup.

That's why you have the players add certain information not found in the summary to the summary.

For example, my wife's original PC design. It literally just took me 4 minutes to add the to hit and damage info from CB to it by hand. I could have added feat and magic item info as well.



====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Kam, level 4
Human, Fighter
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents: One-handed Weapon Talent
Background: Aglarond

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 15, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10.


AC: 23 Fort: 21 Reflex: 19 Will: 17
HP: 48 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Streetwise +7, Endurance +5, Athletics +7, Perception +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Arcana +1, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +4, Heal +4, History +1, Insight +4, Intimidate +2, Nature +4, Religion +1, Stealth, Thievery

FEATS
Human: Armor Proficiency (Plate)
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 2: Action Surge
Level 4: Shield Defense

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Footwork Lure: +11 to hit, 1d10+5 damage, +1d6 damage when bloodied, You can shift 1 square and slide the target 1 square into the space you left.

Fighter at-will 1: Tide of Iron: +11 to hit, 1d10+5 damage, +1d6 damage when bloodied, you push the target 1 square if it is you’re your size, smaller than you, or one size larger. You can shift into the space that the target occupied.

Fighter at-will 1: Sure Strike: +13 to hit, 1d10+1 damage, +1d6 damage when bloodied

Fighter encounter 1: Passing Attack: +11 to hit, 1d10+5 damage, +1d6 damage when bloodied, and you can shift one square, secondary attack, +13 to hit, 1d10+5 damage, +1d6 damage when bloodied

Fighter daily 1: Lasting Threat: +11 to hit, 3d10+5 damage, +1d6 damage when bloodied, the target is marked until the end of the encounter or until you are knocked unconscious. No mark can superseded this one.

Fighter utility 2: Pass Forward: you pick and adjacent enemy and move up to your speed, as long as you end this movement in a square adjacent to that enemy, your movement does not provoke opportunity attacks from that enemy

Fighter encounter 3: Sweeping Blow: close burst 1, +13 to hit, 1d10+5 damage, +1d6 damage when bloodied

ITEMS
Heavy Shield, Magic Plate Armor +1, Amulet of Protection +2, Battlecrazed Bastard sword +1


4 minutes to put this together in a form where it is mostly useable. We put together a set of instructions telling the players what to do and how to do it with an example.

There would still be a template for Hooks, Personality, etc.

Vastly superior than the current template though.

 

[On Puget Sound]

you don't check the summary, you check the character sheet that is generated when you input the summary. Think of the summary as a .zip file used to post and transmit the character sheet.

on another note....there is a feat in Dragon 284 that my character NEEDS to have (Beast Rider - allows a ranger to use companion as a mount, seems obvious for a
Talenta), so I looked to see when it was eligible to be approved, and I saw that the most recent Dragon magazine approved for LEB is 274 - ten issues ago! Is that right, or is the approved sources page just not updated? If we are really ten issues behind on considering sources, I'll start making proposals. As these rules, feats and powers enter common useage, people entering LEB will find that things that they assume are "part of the game" are suddenly not allowed. Not arguing for wholesale or automatic approval, but.... ten months?

 

[KarinsDad]

Approval is now one month from when it comes out in CB and nearly everything is approved (except playtest material and a few other things).

Yes, the approved sources pages should be updated to reflect that.

The Beast Rider feat TMK is auto-approved and was a long time ago.

 

[elecgraystone]

DDI is correct probably 99% of the time.

Even if that was true, the fact that it's not 100% means you can't trust it without checking it manually.

But you avoided my question.

No, since I'm not a DM or have that information I couldn't answer that.

How can a player add Dragon material to his PC without some form of access to DDI?

i did it up until this November. If you know someone that has DDI, it's easy enough to check out the issues and write down anything that's interesting. Not so easy to make up a character using DDI when you're at home and don't have the CB.

It's pretty much a fact of life that the template is a pain in the butt which could be replaced by the summary from CB and sending the DDI file to the DM and the judges if possible. The judges could still check it for correctness and since the summary is just text anyway, the player can manually make any corrections to the summary, just like he makes corrections today to the template.

One, several people are on record as either being unable to get DDI or unwilling to get it. That means we need another means to check the math.

Two, if you're making changes to the summary then how does it have any validity?

And we could make a suggestion that they get a one month subscription in order to create their PC.

I am unable to get DDI as WOTC can't fix my password problem. The only reason I have it is someone set up an account and gave it to me. There is at least one other here that also has the same issues. there are also several people that have said that don't have the extra money to buy DDI. Forcing people to get DDI doesn't work.

But forcing everyone to do the current labor intensive way limits the number of players here more than doing it the more modern less labor intensive way.

I'm all for making it easier, however DDI isn't the way IMO.

If you wish to debate this, I suggest you start a proposal on this and not fill up the general thread with it.

PS. That stuff about cut and paste on the template being the "lazy way" should be yanked as well.

Who said lazy other than you? I recall saying that they were overworked. If I in fact said or inferred that they where lazy, please quote it and I'll say I'm sorry.

there is a feat in Dragon 284 that my character NEEDS.

Can I assume you mean 384? 284 is a 3.5 issue.

I think we have auto accept now so the individual issues don't need it's own acceptance. You just need to wait a month after the complete issue came out.