TwoSix
Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Yea, gotta say, I like that version quite a bit. Having direct the strike be an extra attack on top of current attacks handles "the rogue issue" nicely.
Lets design a Warlord for 5th edition
- Thread starter Paul Smart
- Start date
mellored
Legend
Hmm... Maybe I should use the base classes as "sub-classes".
Maneuvers can be shared between classes, the same way spells are.
Fighter Warlord
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you roll initiative, you have 2 dice.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
Rogue One: Blue Leader
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
You can use your sneak attack dice to power the maneuvers. Dice spent this way are unavailable until the end of your next turn.
Monk Abbot
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
You can spend ki to perform maneuvers. Your die size is d8's.
Barbarian Jarl
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take damage you gain a d6 manuver die until the end of your next turn. If you are raging, the die is a d12.
In addition, you can take an extra oppertunity attack each turn.
Ranger Pathfinder
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
As a bonus action, select a target. Each turn you gain a d6 die to use manuvers against that target. This increases to 2 d6's at level 5, 3 d6's at level 11, and 4d6 at level 12.
In addition, you can track your selected target.
Paladin Marshal (Oath of Teamwork)
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
You can use your lay on hand (maybe spell slots? maybe both?) to power maneuvers. The size is a d4 for each 2 points spent. (1d8 per spell slot)
Manuvers
Fight On!: When an ally takes damage, you can spend a die to reduces the incoming damage by the result. If the damage is reduced to 0, the attack is a miss and they gain the remainder as temporary hit points.
Cunning Strike: When you make a weapon attack, instead of rolling an attack roll, the target makes an Intelligence saving throw. If they fail, you hit and deal damage equal to your die roll.
First Aid: You can use your action to allow a creature to spend a hit die for each die spent. Add your roll to the result. Once a creature benefits from this, they cannot benefit again until they take a short rest.
First Strike: When a creature rolls initiative, you can give a bonus equal youe roll.
Sacrificial Opportunity: When a creature would make a melee attack against you, you can be automatically be hit in order to have it provoke an opportunity attack from one creature adjacent to it, excluding yourself. Reduce the damage you take by the die roll.
Exploit Weakness: When a creature hits another creature with an attack, it deals extra damage equal to the die roll.
Drive the Point: When a creature makes with an attack, you can spend a die to increase the roll by the result.
Hold your Ground: When a creature would be pushed or pulled, reduce the distance by 5'.
Direct the Strike: When an ally takes an attack action, you can spend a die to allow them to make 1 additional attack against the same target. You can use this once per attack turn.
Skirmish: When a creature would provoke an opportunity attack, they do not provoke an opportunity attack.
Ect...
Still seems a bit backwards, but I could live with it.
Maneuvers can be shared between classes, the same way spells are.
Fighter Warlord
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you roll initiative, you have 2 dice.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
Rogue One: Blue Leader
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
You can use your sneak attack dice to power the maneuvers. Dice spent this way are unavailable until the end of your next turn.
Monk Abbot
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
You can spend ki to perform maneuvers. Your die size is d8's.
Barbarian Jarl
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take damage you gain a d6 manuver die until the end of your next turn. If you are raging, the die is a d12.
In addition, you can take an extra oppertunity attack each turn.
Ranger Pathfinder
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
As a bonus action, select a target. Each turn you gain a d6 die to use manuvers against that target. This increases to 2 d6's at level 5, 3 d6's at level 11, and 4d6 at level 12.
In addition, you can track your selected target.
Paladin Marshal (Oath of Teamwork)
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
You can use your lay on hand (maybe spell slots? maybe both?) to power maneuvers. The size is a d4 for each 2 points spent. (1d8 per spell slot)
Manuvers
Fight On!: When an ally takes damage, you can spend a die to reduces the incoming damage by the result. If the damage is reduced to 0, the attack is a miss and they gain the remainder as temporary hit points.
Cunning Strike: When you make a weapon attack, instead of rolling an attack roll, the target makes an Intelligence saving throw. If they fail, you hit and deal damage equal to your die roll.
First Aid: You can use your action to allow a creature to spend a hit die for each die spent. Add your roll to the result. Once a creature benefits from this, they cannot benefit again until they take a short rest.
First Strike: When a creature rolls initiative, you can give a bonus equal youe roll.
Sacrificial Opportunity: When a creature would make a melee attack against you, you can be automatically be hit in order to have it provoke an opportunity attack from one creature adjacent to it, excluding yourself. Reduce the damage you take by the die roll.
Exploit Weakness: When a creature hits another creature with an attack, it deals extra damage equal to the die roll.
Drive the Point: When a creature makes with an attack, you can spend a die to increase the roll by the result.
Hold your Ground: When a creature would be pushed or pulled, reduce the distance by 5'.
Direct the Strike: When an ally takes an attack action, you can spend a die to allow them to make 1 additional attack against the same target. You can use this once per attack turn.
Skirmish: When a creature would provoke an opportunity attack, they do not provoke an opportunity attack.
Ect...
Still seems a bit backwards, but I could live with it.
Tony Vargas
Legend
That aspect seems like a good design, on its own merits, but it's ironic that it's a standard that Mearls didn't even hold himself to when balancing his Fighter(Warlord).
That could certainly work for the kind of 'faux MC' sub-classes 5e seems to go in for, but it probably shouldn't be comprehensive.
I'm not surprised they didn't go for that, but it is a good idea. It'd've been a good idea for 4e, for that matter.
Lol.
mellored
Legend
I don't know what you mean by that.
mellored
Legend
Some refinement to allow for lazy-lords in each class, and to make them a bit more unique.
Fighter Warlord
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you gain 2 dice when you roll initiative.
Rogue One: Blue Leader
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you can use your sneak attack dice to power the maneuvers. Dice spent this way are unavailable until the end of your next turn.
Monk Abbot
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, use martial arts, or flurry of blows, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you can use stunning strike though an ally when they hit a creature.
Barbarian Jarl
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make. You gain 2 dice if you recklessly attack.
In addition, when you enter a rage, you allies gain THP equal to your rage bonus.
Ranger Packmaster
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you gain hunter's mark as a bonus spell. When you use hunter's mark, all of your allies benefit from it.
Paladin Marshal (Oath of Teamwork)
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you can use divine smite though an ally when they hit with an attack.
Fighter Warlord
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you gain 2 dice when you roll initiative.
Rogue One: Blue Leader
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you can use your sneak attack dice to power the maneuvers. Dice spent this way are unavailable until the end of your next turn.
Monk Abbot
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, use martial arts, or flurry of blows, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you can use stunning strike though an ally when they hit a creature.
Barbarian Jarl
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make. You gain 2 dice if you recklessly attack.
In addition, when you enter a rage, you allies gain THP equal to your rage bonus.
Ranger Packmaster
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you gain hunter's mark as a bonus spell. When you use hunter's mark, all of your allies benefit from it.
Paladin Marshal (Oath of Teamwork)
Learn 4 maneuvers from the maneuver list.
When you take the attack action, you can trade your attack(s) to gain 1 die for each attack you don't make.
In addition, you can use divine smite though an ally when they hit with an attack.
TwoSix
Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster, primarily. A Fighter/Wizard or Rogue/Wizard multiclass wrapped in a subclass.
mellored
Legend
Ok....
So... you want a way to trade attacks for spell slots?
TwoSix
Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
No, just wanted to explain what Tony meant by "faux-MC" classes, since it seemed to cause some confusion. Pretty sure he meant that since a maneuver system for warlords would logically be bundled up into one class, spreading the one system to multiple classes via the subclass route would be analogous to spreading Wizard spells to multiple classes, like the EK and AT do, in lieu of just making an actual multiclass Fighter/Wizard or Rogue/Wizard.
Therefore, in making those kinds of subclasses, it doesn't preclude that fact that it still makes sense to make that set of features the focus of another, full class (that being a Warlord), just like the Wizard class still exists despite having its mechanics used in the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster.
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
So thinking on the battlemaster as a warlord. What if:
Level 1: Drop Fighting Style. Drop Second Wind. Gain 2 (1d6) superiority dice and 3 maneuvers. (Redo Commanders strike to grant ally an on turn attack).
Level 2: Action Surge fits great (way to fuel additional maneuvers)
Level 3: go up to 6 total superiority dice and even more additional maneuvers (finish remaining levels as is and scale superiority dice as they are now)
***Add in a few new maneuvers***
Personally I think we are 90% of the way to a warlord with these changes.
Level 1: Drop Fighting Style. Drop Second Wind. Gain 2 (1d6) superiority dice and 3 maneuvers. (Redo Commanders strike to grant ally an on turn attack).
Level 2: Action Surge fits great (way to fuel additional maneuvers)
Level 3: go up to 6 total superiority dice and even more additional maneuvers (finish remaining levels as is and scale superiority dice as they are now)
***Add in a few new maneuvers***
Personally I think we are 90% of the way to a warlord with these changes.
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
To help codify the changes:
I will introduce a new Fighter fighting style: Warlord Style - You gain two 1d6 superiority dice and your choice of 3 maneuvers. When you choose this style you lose the Second Wind ability.
Level 3 Battlemaster subclass change: If you took the Warlord Style as your fighting style then everything is additive with the superiority dice and maneuvers you already have (need much better wording here)
Successful Warlord!
I will introduce a new Fighter fighting style: Warlord Style - You gain two 1d6 superiority dice and your choice of 3 maneuvers. When you choose this style you lose the Second Wind ability.
Level 3 Battlemaster subclass change: If you took the Warlord Style as your fighting style then everything is additive with the superiority dice and maneuvers you already have (need much better wording here)
Successful Warlord!
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