Lets design a Warlord for 5th edition

mellored

Legend
Key points from my homebrew playtesting.

1: Instant ("reaction") bonuses work really well. It leaves the spotlight on the other player.
1b: It's better to say "reduce the enemies AC" than "increase the allies attack".
1c: 2-3 "reactions" per round seems like a good baseline. With 5-6 "reactions" as a nova round.
1d: Avoid creating extra off-turn d20 rolls. Like saving throws to prevent an enemy from attacking.

2: Action to gain dice works really well. Really helps keeps things balanced with multi-classing.
2b: You need to start each battle with some dice.
2c: You need a way to use spend unspent dice. Otherwise, you feel bad when your allies all roll well and you can't use your abilities.
2cb: Probably some big move that cost a lot (i.e. spend 5 dice to let all your allies take a full action) so you feel good that they all rolled well.

3: Dice are better than points. People like rolling dice and it keeps things a bit less predictable.
3b: Dice also help make each "reaction" more chunky. (helping solve point 1c).
3c: You can play with dice sizes, to allow different sub-builds to work better with different maneuvers. (Barbarian giving out a few d12's, while rogues have more d4's. Avoiding an OA cost 1 die, so it cost the rogue less).

4: There's a big power difference between before the roll and after the roll. Seems pretty promising as the level 11 feature.
4b: Bonuses to d20 rolls (attack, save, skills) automatically scale. Bonuses to HP/damage need to have built-in scaling.

5: Hit dice healing works just fine, even at-will. Though it's tricky to balance given how it scales.
5b: Healing 1 hit die at a time can be annoying with the "whack-a-mole" thing. No worse than healing word, but still not great.

6: Having different ways to gain dice can give each character a unique "class" flavor, but can also be fiddly. There's a balance here I failed to reach.



Might be a while before I get to try anything else.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

mellored

Legend
To help codify the changes:

I will introduce a new Fighter fighting style: Warlord Style - You gain two 1d6 superiority dice and your choice of 3 maneuvers. When you choose this style you lose the Second Wind ability.

Level 3 Battlemaster subclass change: If you took the Warlord Style as your fighting style then everything is additive with the superiority dice and maneuvers you already have (need much better wording here)

Successful Warlord!
IMO:
Warlord Fighting Style - At the start of each battle, you gain 2 superiority dice that are d4's, and your choice of 2 maneuvers.
In addition, when you use second wind, you can let an ally within 5' receive the healing instead of you.

Level 3: You learn 2 maneuvers. Whenever you would make a weapon attack, you can forgo the attack to gain a superiority die. Your superiority dice are d6's. If you had superiority dice from another source, such as Warlord Fighting Style, increase the size of those dice to d6 as well.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
IMO:
Warlord Fighting Style - At the start of each battle, you gain 2 superiority dice that are d4's, and your choice of 2 maneuvers.
In addition, when you use second wind, you can let an ally within 5' receive the healing instead of you.

Level 3: You learn 2 maneuvers. Whenever you would make a weapon attack, you can forgo the attack to gain a superiority die. Your superiority dice are d6's. If you had superiority dice from another source, such as Warlord Fighting Style, increase the size of those dice to d6 as well.

Then aren't you doing much more healing and temp hp generation better than even a life cleric?

IMO, just make a healing maneuver. Heals 1d6 at level 1.
 

mellored

Legend
Then aren't you doing much more healing and temp hp generation better than even a life cleric?
Hmm... at level 2

Second wind = 5.5+2 * 3 = 22.5
Rally = 2.5+2 * 2 uses * 6 battles = 54 THP.
= 76.5

Healing Word = 2.5+3+3 * 3 = 25.5 (31.5 with cure wounds).
Preserve Life = 10 * 3 = 30
= 55.5 (61.5 with cure wounds).

So.. yea. Might be a bit too much at level 1.


Warlord Fighting Style
At the start of each battle, you gain 1 superiority dice that are d4's, and your choice of 2 maneuvers.
In addition, when you use second wind, you can let an ally within 5' receive the healing instead of you.

Now at level 2...
Second wind = 5.5+2 * 3 = 22.5
Rally = 2.5+2 * 1 uses * 6 battles = 27 THP.
= 49.5

vs the life clerics 55.5


Level 3: You learn 2 maneuvers. You gain 1 superiroty dice at the beginning of each battle, in addition to any other feature that gives you dice. Your superiority dice are d6's. If you had superiority dice from another source, such as Warlord Fighting Style, increase the size of those dice to d6 as well. In addition, whenever you would make a weapon attack, you can forgo the attack to gain a superiority die.

Second wind = 5.5+3 * 3 = 25.5
Rally = 3.5+2 * 2 uses * 6 battles = 66 THP.
= 91.5

vs clerics
Healing word = 2.5+3+3 * 4 = 34
Preserve Life = 15 * 3 = 45
Prayer of Healing = 9+3+4 * 5 targets * 2 uses = 160
= 239

So yea. Not worried about it past level 3.

IMO, just make a healing maneuver. Heals 1d6 at level 1.
If this was a new class, then I would agree.
But IMO, It feels bad to say "you don't get second wind".
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Hmm... at level 2

Second wind = 5.5+2 * 3 = 22.5
Rally = 2.5+2 * 2 uses * 6 battles = 54 THP.
= 76.5

Healing Word = 2.5+3+3 * 3 = 25.5 (31.5 with cure wounds).
Preserve Life = 10 * 3 = 30
= 55.5 (61.5 with cure wounds).

So.. yea. Might be a bit too much at level 1.


Warlord Fighting Style
At the start of each battle, you gain 1 superiority dice that are d4's, and your choice of 2 maneuvers.
In addition, when you use second wind, you can let an ally within 5' receive the healing instead of you.

Now at level 2...
Second wind = 5.5+2 * 3 = 22.5
Rally = 2.5+2 * 1 uses * 6 battles = 27 THP.
= 49.5

vs the life clerics 55.5


Level 3: You learn 2 maneuvers. You gain 1 superiroty dice at the beginning of each battle, in addition to any other feature that gives you dice. Your superiority dice are d6's. If you had superiority dice from another source, such as Warlord Fighting Style, increase the size of those dice to d6 as well. In addition, whenever you would make a weapon attack, you can forgo the attack to gain a superiority die.

Second wind = 5.5+3 * 3 = 25.5
Rally = 3.5+2 * 2 uses * 6 battles = 66 THP.
= 91.5

vs clerics
Healing word = 2.5+3+3 * 4 = 34
Preserve Life = 15 * 3 = 45
Prayer of Healing = 9+3+4 * 5 targets * 2 uses = 160
= 239

So yea. Not worried about it past level 3.

If this was a new class, then I would agree.
But IMO, It feels bad to say "you don't get second wind".

How about 1 superiority dice per short rest and 2nd wind can affect allies?
 

mellored

Legend
How about 1 superiority dice per short rest and 2nd wind can affect allies?
Second wind = 5.5+2 * 3 = 22.5
Rally = 2.5+2 * 3 = 13.5 THP.
= 36

vs 55.5 for cleric.


Actually, why not allow the lazy-lord from level 1?


Warlord Fighting Style
When you would make a weapon attack in combat, you can forgo the attack to study the enemy instead. You gain a superiority die for each attack you don't make, up to a maximum of your Int modifier. These dice last until the end of combat, as a new enemy means a new tactic. You learn 2 maneuvers to use these dice on.
In addition, when you use second wind, you can let an ally within 5' receive the healing instead of you.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
Key points from my homebrew playtesting.

1: Instant ("reaction") bonuses work really well. It leaves the spotlight on the other player.
1b: It's better to say "reduce the enemies AC" than "increase the allies attack".
1c: 2-3 "reactions" per round seems like a good baseline. With 5-6 "reactions" as a nova round.
1d: Avoid creating extra off-turn d20 rolls. Like saving throws to prevent an enemy from attacking.

2: Action to gain dice works really well. Really helps keeps things balanced with multi-classing.
2b: You need to start each battle with some dice.
2c: You need a way to use spend unspent dice. Otherwise, you feel bad when your allies all roll well and you can't use your abilities.
2cb: Probably some big move that cost a lot (i.e. spend 5 dice to let all your allies take a full action) so you feel good that they all rolled well.

3: Dice are better than points. People like rolling dice and it keeps things a bit less predictable.
3b: Dice also help make each "reaction" more chunky. (helping solve point 1c).
3c: You can play with dice sizes, to allow different sub-builds to work better with different maneuvers. (Barbarian giving out a few d12's, while rogues have more d4's. Avoiding an OA cost 1 die, so it cost the rogue less).

4: There's a big power difference between before the roll and after the roll. Seems pretty promising as the level 11 feature.
4b: Bonuses to d20 rolls (attack, save, skills) automatically scale. Bonuses to HP/damage need to have built-in scaling.

5: Hit dice healing works just fine, even at-will. Though it's tricky to balance given how it scales.
5b: Healing 1 hit die at a time can be annoying with the "whack-a-mole" thing. No worse than healing word, but still not great.

6: Having different ways to gain dice can give each character a unique "class" flavor, but can also be fiddly. There's a balance here I failed to reach.



Might be a while before I get to try anything else.

Interesting field notes.
 


FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Second wind = 5.5+2 * 3 = 22.5
Rally = 2.5+2 * 3 = 13.5 THP.
= 36

vs 55.5 for cleric.


Actually, why not allow the lazy-lord from level 1?


Warlord Fighting Style
When you would make a weapon attack in combat, you can forgo the attack to study the enemy instead. You gain a superiority die for each attack you don't make, up to a maximum of your Int modifier. These dice last until the end of combat, as a new enemy means a new tactic. You learn 2 maneuvers to use these dice on.
In addition, when you use second wind, you can let an ally within 5' receive the healing instead of you.

I feel like you are intentionally ignoring level 1
 


Remove ads

Top