Liches and their unarmed attacks.

[twjensen]

Silly test

Forget the rules for a moment.

Doesn't the image of a lich hitting himself in the head to get HP seem a *touch* silly?

I wouldn't allow it just because I don't want my D&D games to devolve into the realm of the ridiculous.

From a rules perspective, Xhan'Tyr is on the right track. The text for inflict applies only to inflict unless there is some other rule that says "as per inflict light wounds" or similar. Since the lich's negative energy attack ability does not reference the spell, it is not the same as the spell.

Spell descriptions are meant ONLY as spell descriptions (and as rules to run the spells), not extensions to the generic rules. Look to the DMG in the "running the game" section for appropriate extensions to the rules on things like damage types.

 

[James McMurray]

Of course the image of a lich hitting himself in the head seems silly. Try describing the effect as "the lich is focusing his energy inward, strengthening his ties to the negative plane by purposefully halting the usual seepage of negative energy from his body." That sounds less rediculous to me.

 

[kreynolds]

Anyway, I'd bet anything Skip would rule against this...

No doubt in my mind at all.

...(but provide a very unsatisfying reason).

I wouldn't even need him to provide a coherent response to this issue at all. Consider a player character Lich. Would any of you let him heal himself at will, effectively allowing him to possess an unlimited source of healing energies, and at the same time, allow him to possess an unlimited source of damaging energies? I sure as heck wouldn't. The damage they inflict with a touch attack is bad enough.

Think about it. Lich PC gets injured, defensively casts teleport without error (since he's a lich, this skill check won't be a problem for him at all), heals himself quite efficiently, then jumps back into the fray. I can promise you, no party will have enough healing potions or time to keep pace with him.

 

[James McMurray]

Actually, because he's a Lich, this skill check will be a problem for him. He'll have to work off of ranks alone, whereas most people at least get a +1 or +2 from con. Besides, that's nothing an equivilently levelled human couldn't do with the leadership feat. If you've got 100 followers and 1/2 of them are clerics, that's a lot of cure light wounds spells. Plus, throw in a Cleric cohort, and it won't even take you nearly as long as it'll take the Lich.

Then again, I don't have to worry about a PC Lich, since none of my players are dumb enough to turn themselves into somethine that any equivilently levelled Cleric of Pelor can turn to dust with a thought. Sure, you've got the phylactery to fall back on, but while you're trying to recuperate, your enemies are busily tracking it down, as well as foiling all your plans.

Personally, I think Liches should be a thing to be feared, and this is just one more way to do that.

 

[Kurtz Tote]

I wouldn't allow it. The way I envision it is that negative energy is just a result of being a lich - what it is that courses through his "veins" instead of blood. However, that negative energy doesn't course through everyone's veins, which is why it does damage to a lot of creatures. However, he can't just touch himself and get better. He isn't creating any new negative energy with which to heal himself.

 

[kreynolds]

I wouldn't allow it. The way I envision it is that negative energy is just a result of being a lich - what it is that courses through his "veins" instead of blood. However, that negative energy doesn't course through everyone's veins, which is why it does damage to a lot of creatures. However, he can't just touch himself and get better. He isn't creating any new negative energy with which to heal himself.

Amen.

 

[Petrosian]

Simply put, its imbalancing to have an adversary heal himself with a touch.

Anyone for whom that fact escapes them, rules are not going to matter.

 

[kreynolds]

Anyone for whom that fact escapes them, rules are not going to matter.

Wow. And you guys say I'm bad! Harsh...

 

[BrooklynKnight]

hehe, I love leadership.

 

[Voadam]

Okay, I am arguing that the undead type descriptor says that negative energy can heal undead and the lich's touch is negative energy.

For a visual:

The creature's hand erupts in a crackling black aura. It reaches down to its shattered ribcage and where the dark energy touches, the bones reknit themselves and become whole. Standing up it rasps, "Now then, where were we? Oh yes, you thought you could challenge my might with mere swords."

Petrosian

For comparison check out the equal CR vampire template with fast healing 5. No touch needed.

Conceptualizing the lich touch as internal energy and therefore not adding anything to the lich is fine. So would be interpreting it as a mystic channeling of energy from the negative material plane which is external to the liches normal state.

An interpretation that only effects that specifically state in their description that they heal undead is fine. I think you are reading the undead type description too narrowly, but I also think it is a judgment call for each individual DM to make because the wording can reasonably be interpreted broadly or narrowly.