looking to be build powerful level 12 duelist

[mikebr99]

I think people are missing an obvious choice... the rogue.

Here's my build for a 'western iaijitsu guy': Rog 10/Duelist 2

Str 10, Con 16 (orig 13), Dex 22 (orig 15, then 18 with ability advancement), Int 15, Wis 8, Cha 10.

82 hit points

Improved reaction +2, Sneak attack +5d6, Improved evasion, Improved uncanny dodge, trap sense +3

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon finesse, Two-weapon fighting, Combat expertise, Improved feint, Improved initiative

Want to gain Improved and Greater two-weapon fighting at higher levels. Possibly spring attack to get in and out of trouble, but this duelist’s power comes from the initial round or use of feint.

BAB +9/+4, Init +12, Melee +16/+11, 1d6 +1 19-20/x2, 2 weapon: +14/+9/+14, 1d6 +1 19-20/x2
+5d6 sneak attack

AC 25 (+6 Dex, +2 Canny defense, +3 bracers of armor, +2 amulet of natural armor, +2 ring of protection)

Possessions:
Gloves of dex +4 16k, Amulet of natural armor +2 8k, + amulet of health +3 13.5k, Ring of protection +2 8k, Cloak of resistance +3 9k, Bracers of armor +3 9k, Boots of speed 12k, Two +1 adamant short swords 10k

Assuming he wins initiative, that's potentially 3 hits with sneak attack damage. Draw stroke SLASH SLASH SLASH. And if he's flanking, more opportunities to do sneak attack damage.

Sure, like most rogues, he has trouble if he can't use sneak attack. But 25 AC isn't bad, and his hit points are rather respectable. With 3 attacks (more with improved and greater two-weapon), he can hold his own against other targets. A crossbow and tanglefoot bags can flesh him out.

If you are going to procced any further in the Duelist, please note your precise strike wont work while fighting w/2 weapons.

And you are also wearing 2 amulets...

Mike

 

[DemonAtheist]

my image is that of dorian grey from "league of extraordinary gentlemen" (no its not accurate to the book, and yes i have read it): a lone figure among chaos dealing with a rapier, walking through arrow fire unscathed though he wears no armor, never being surprised, always seeming to be in control. Also, this is why he would be human, just for image reasons. A halfling would probably be better.

As to why I'm not interested in rogues: i'm tired of every fight being a task of how to make enemies lose their dex bonus to ac. I dont want to blink, or be invisible, or feint as a necessary maneuver. sneak attack is fun, but its somewhat repetitive after a while.

This character would (more image stuff) be able to quickly close the distance, then be nigh untouchable in combat as he dances around, aloof and secure in his ability, getting consistent criticals (rapiers do that).

as to why I would consider a siangham: its the only monk weapon, which lets you use weapon finesse with flurry of blows with precise strike. good stuff, meta game wise, less so rp wise.

if anyone else has suggestions, id like to just say that im not interested in taking more than 4 levels the slower BAB progression (as in not taking level 5, which gives no bonus) simply because i cant rely on leveling too much past the beginning, and would like to be powerful AT level 12, not soon thereafter.

thanks for the suggestions btw

derf

 

[orangefruitbat]

I'd go 4 levels rogue, 3 levels of swashbucker, 4 levels of fighter, and 1 level of duelist.

Rogue levels give you killer skills (I'm talking bluff, diplomacy, tumbling here - not disable device), plus evasion and uncanny dodge. Sneak attack is just an extra little bonus.

3 levels of swashbucker - decent skills, good HP and BAB, a free finess feat and the ability to add INT to damage.

4 levels of fighter - more HP, BAB and fortitude save. Plus 3 feats, including weapon specialization. Now we have a total of 9 feats - so we can take combat expertise, improved disarm, dodge, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind attack, weapon focus (rapier), weapon specialization (rapier), plus the free finesse feat. For my last feat, I'd go iron will, cause the Will save sucks on this build.

Now we can begin our dueling.

my image is that of dorian grey from "league of extraordinary gentlemen" (no its not accurate to the book, and yes i have read it): a lone figure among chaos dealing with a rapier, walking through arrow fire unscathed though he wears no armor, never being surprised, always seeming to be in control. Also, this is why he would be human, just for image reasons. A halfling would probably be better.

As to why I'm not interested in rogues: i'm tired of every fight being a task of how to make enemies lose their dex bonus to ac. I dont want to blink, or be invisible, or feint as a necessary maneuver. sneak attack is fun, but its somewhat repetitive after a while.

This character would (more image stuff) be able to quickly close the distance, then be nigh untouchable in combat as he dances around, aloof and secure in his ability, getting consistent criticals (rapiers do that).

as to why I would consider a siangham: its the only monk weapon, which lets you use weapon finesse with flurry of blows with precise strike. good stuff, meta game wise, less so rp wise.

if anyone else has suggestions, id like to just say that im not interested in taking more than 4 levels the slower BAB progression (as in not taking level 5, which gives no bonus) simply because i cant rely on leveling too much past the beginning, and would like to be powerful AT level 12, not soon thereafter.

thanks for the suggestions btw

derf

 

[Will]

If you are going to procced any further in the Duelist, please note your precise strike wont work while fighting w/2 weapons.

And you are also wearing 2 amulets...

Mike

True re: precise strike, but I'd rather work on 2 weapons. If you hit a situation where precise strike would be handy, well, you can always choose just to use one weapon.

As for 2 amulets... that's what the + is meant for, sorry... should have been clear. You can combine amulets by increasing the cost of subsequent benefits by 50%.

Wrt to the person not wanting to feint, etc... this was built somewhat around the drawstroke duellist. One very powerful initial flurry of attack. If you get initiative, you get to sneak attack. Assuming you are no more than 5 feet from your opponent, that's 3 opportunities to do lots of damage.

The potential of dealing 66 damage to an opponent in a single round is pretty nifty at 12th level. While combat-oriented monsters and fighters will survive, you've put a sizeable dent.

Again, this is the 'quick strike and drop them where they stand' model of duelist, rather than the lots of footwork/dancing about kind. That will require more use of Bluff, granted.

 

[kwiqsilver]

For my idea of a duelist, I would take 12 levels of fighter. My guess is that none of those other combinations could take him in a duel, that is, some kind of stand-up pre-arranged fight.

Possibly, but at 13th Level the Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Buckler 1/Duelist 7 becomes nearly impossible to hit. He's AC 30 before adding magic items.

 

[jgsugden]

Get some personality for your swashbuckler!

Dwarven Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 4/Duelist 5 (if you use UA racial paragon rules, after 10 levels of duelist, take 3 levels of dwarf).

That is the next PC design in my queue.

Seriously, dwarf is noted as the strongest melee race by most folks. 3 Levels of swashbuckler for the int to damage, 4 levels of fighter for bonus feats (including specialization) and then levels in your favored class.

If you use UA traits, the quick trait (give up 1 hp/lvl for +10' movement) may be the way to go. If not, a 12th level character should be able to gain access to movement increasing magics.

A swashbuckling dwarf is just too much fun to pass up ...

 

[mhd]

A swashbuckling dwarf is just too much fun to pass up ...

Casanunda?

 

[shilsen]

Casanunda?

Nah! Dwarves only make the second-best lovers

 

[MorganKiller]

Nah! Dwarves only make the second-best lovers

Yep, and he is encumbered by the stepladder he always carries with him...

 

[DemonAtheist]

as a house rule, would any of you allow a monk/duelist to use flurry of blows with a rapier? id like to get a feeling before i run it by my dm.