Low Con and Hit Points: Reducing the Sting

[Exen Trik]

It's always struck me that low constitution was unbalanced against other low stats. No class, regardless of thier other abilites can much afford to have a negative modifier. Strength is dumpable by any caster, and combat classes can focus on finesse and ranged attacks. Any character, even rogue can be effective with low dex. Intelligence, wisdom and charisma are the basis of some classes, but can mostly ignored by others.

But having low con is bad for everyone, sometimes to the point of making a character unplayable. Characters meant tp get in harms way often can't take much abuse, and those who aren't can't take any. A Wizard with a -1 con modifier loses nearly half their hp, and any more than that puts them near or at 1 hp/level. Oddly, in this situation a -3 modifier effects hp exactly as bad as a -4 or -5. And recalculating hp for permanent changes to low levels of con is either too complicated, or inaccurate.


With these things in mind, I created a special hit point progression rate for low scores of con, with no negative modifiers. Instead, hit points are gained after a certain number of levels, depending on your consitution score. Only a a score of 1 (or no score at all) provides no bonus hit points, and Con scores of 12 or above recieve their normal benefits.

Con    Rate      Hp mod at lvl 20 
--------------------------------
-      None      +0 (Construct/Undead)
0      None       - (Dead)
1      None      +0
2-3    +1/12     +1
4-5    +1/8      +2
6-7    +1/5      +4
8-9    +1/3      +6
10-11  +1/2      +10

Higher values are unchanged:
12-13  +1/1      +20
14-15  +2/1      +40
...Etc

For example, Szark the fencer is a natural swordsman, but was badly wounded as a child. As a level 14 fighter, he has 10+13d10 hit points, plus 7 hit points from his 10 Con. (14 levels with +1 every other level)

Raistlin is a mage of the highest caliber, but has been sikly and frail is whole life. His 20 levels of wizard give him 4+19d4 hit points, but his meager 4 Con still provide +2 hit points (+1 at level 8, +2 at level 16)


Besides getting around the above issues, this has the effect of making the gameplay overal more survivable, especially with lower power games with weaker stat buys and rolling methods. It can also greatly reduce the power deadliness of con damage, but simply sticking with -1 per hit die will keep its normal power level

Comments welcome. Or just throw rotten fruit, if you like

EDIT: Clarified table and text, added examples

 

[Bront]

Actualy, I've had a lot of fun with a low con character, and never felt realy bothered by it. It's just a change in tactics, much like any other game.

It was a low con Bard (Vs his high con Wizard twin, who had more HP), and it played well enough. He stuck to range, did support things, and avoided danger like the plague. Was a lot of fun, and didn't strike me as unbalanced in the least.

The deciding factor on balance of con is that you can't get worse than a 1. Meaning that the % average decrease per die is lower.

							Con Mod						
	-3		-2		-1		0	1		2		3	
d4	1.00	40.0%	1.25	50.0%	1.75	70.0%	2.50	3.50	140.0%	4.50	180.0%	5.50	220.0%
d6	1.50	42.9%	2.00	57.1%	2.67	76.2%	3.50	4.50	128.6%	5.50	157.1%	6.50	185.7%
d8	2.25	50.0%	2.88	63.9%	3.63	80.6%	4.50	5.50	122.2%	6.50	144.4%	7.50	166.7%
d10	3.10	56.4%	3.80	69.1%	4.60	83.6%	5.50	6.50	118.2%	7.50	136.4%	8.50	154.5%
d12	4.00	61.5%	4.75	73.1%	5.58	85.9%	6.50	7.50	115.4%	8.50	130.8%	9.50	146.2%

Basicly, a - does not effect your % HP as much as a + on average.

Of course, also it means a + is more effective for a lower HD, while a - is less noticable for a higher HD, so fighters and barbs can dump Con

 

[Li Shenron]

I like the idea. It means that you are never going to get a HP penalty from Con, which opens up for interesting characters, for example an ill-health fighter (low Con still decreases Fort saves), or a sundered wizard/necromancer, without making them too weak to survive.

I wouldn't want to make Con a dump stat of course, but IMXP it is VERY RARE for a player to keep a low Con, and actually almost all the characters I've seen had Con 12+.

For a similar reason, I was considering to give all characters max HP at ever HD, so that a high Con is still a benefit to consider, but a low Con is not too much of a burden.

I think that your way is very good in making low-Con acceptable, but doesn't it otherwise restrict the benefit of high-Con too much? Especially considering monsters who have lots of HP for 20+ Con, now they'll have only +1 hp/hd, isn't that too much of a limitation?

 

[Exen Trik]

Actualy, I've had a lot of fun with a low con character, and never felt realy bothered by it. It's just a change in tactics, much like any other game.

Well I never said the current system is *bad*, but just as you said it requires a change in tactics, and thus mandates a certain play style just to be effective. You couldn't have played your bard as a highly skilled but frail fencer, because you'd have been squashed like a bug.

I like the idea. It means that you are never going to get a HP penalty from Con, which opens up for interesting characters, for example an ill-health fighter (low Con still decreases Fort saves), or a sundered wizard/necromancer, without making them too weak to survive.

Exactly what I'm going for!

I wouldn't want to make Con a dump stat of course, but IMXP it is VERY RARE for a player to keep a low Con, and actually almost all the characters I've seen had Con 12+.

Kinda shows something is wrong, when low-con is hardly considered an option .

I think that your way is very good in making low-Con acceptable, but doesn't it otherwise restrict the benefit of high-Con too much? Especially considering monsters who have lots of HP for 20+ Con, now they'll have only +1 hp/hd, isn't that too much of a limitation?

Ah, it doesn't actually limit higher Con. That last line just means "I didn't change anything else". Sorry if it wasn't clear. And I didn't actually change 12-13 either, I just listed it there to keep the rest in perspective.

 

[ARandomGod]

My first comment is that it took me a while (and the reading of comments to the proposal) before I actually understood what you were saying.

I think I do now, but it wasn't entirely clear what you were representing on the table. An example would have been nice.

For instance, I now believe that you mean to say that a person with a con modifier of 4 or 5 would not only not get a HP penalty, but would recieve a bonus of +1 for every 8 character levels.

Assuming that's correct...

I like it. I have occasionally felt that there was something wrong with the current system wherein you simply cannot play a "Raistlin" type character at ALL. This system would make it undesireable (for combat casting and fort saves), but not any more unplayable than a wizard with a con score of 10.

Yes, it does end up improving overall health of lowish Con characters, but not to an unbalancing amount at all.

PS> I think that, if I'm correct in my assumption of what you mean with the table, that a con score of 12-13 is also "unchanged". Of course, using that as an example is probably why you put that part in.

Kinda shows something is wrong, when low-con is hardly considered an option .

I completely agree. I've seen characters with absolutely every other score low. I've seen people play with a dex of 8 (I'd say currently the second least popular stat to have low). But I've never seen anyone play with a con score under 10. With this system I think you would.

 

[Cheiromancer]

What's the rule behind the progression 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 12?

It looks kinda like a fibonacci sequence, except that if that is the case it should end with a 13, not a 12.

 

[Exen Trik]

My first comment is that it took me a while (and the reading of comments to the proposal) before I actually understood what you were saying.

I think I do now, but it wasn't entirely clear what you were representing on the table. An example would have been nice.

Post has been retouched, should be easier to understand now.

What's the rule behind the progression 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 12?

It looks kinda like a fibonacci sequence, except that if that is the case it should end with a 13, not a 12.

I didn't set out to use much math, I just wanted the bonus hp at level 20 to follow that pattern, and it turns out multiplying the required levels by around 1.5 each did that nicely. Of course, its also the result of adding a series sum to the denominator, so I guess I ended up using math anyways. ^^;

 

[Koewn]

Lowest score I've ever played with was a Strength of 5 on a halfling.

I had to sneak attack to do more than 1 pt of damage with a dagger. (fortunately this was 3.0, so a Dagger of Sure Striking helped with DR). Once, I had a chance to break a large gem that was a phylactery for a dracolich.

Couldn't do it

This is a really good idea though - I think I'll forward it to the DM.