D&D 5E Magic Ammunition

[The Crimson Binome]

What I mean by this is that magic ammo provides you with an opportunity to give out a fraction of a coveted bonus. That's mathematical fact!

It gets a little bit weirder than that. A normal magical weapon can make an infinite number of attacks with that bonus, and the arrow only ever gives you one attack, so it's (1/infinite) of a real +1 weapon. Off the top of my head, I can't recall whether or not that's technically a fraction or not.

How many attacks do you make during a session? 10? 20? 100?

All of them. During a session, I make 100% of the attacks I want to make. After determining that I actually want to hurt/kill/disable an enemy, I never hesitate on whether I should or should not make a weapon attack.

With 10, or 20, or 100 magical arrows, you always have to decide whether or not to expend one. Every time. It's a choice, and you know that there's a ~95% chance that using one is the wrong decision.

 

[CapnZapp]

With 10, or 20, or 100 magical arrows, you always have to decide whether or not to expend one. Every time. It's a choice, and you know that there's a ~95% chance that using one is the wrong decision.

(Is this guy for real?)

Ahem, well... I guess you really like permanent bonuses... All the more power to you, and remember to stay off those infinitely worthless consumables!

I guess I don't have anything more to say on this. Bye!

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

Or...

...you could not hand out magical bows... and then those arrows will look mighty tempting...

But... but... I have this idea for a custom version of the +1 enchantment where the bow transmutes arrows to roses! And the tip of the arrow is the tip of the rose stem!

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Ahem, well... I guess you really like permanent bonuses... All the more power to you, and remember to stay off those infinitely worthless consumables!

I'm trying my best, really! It's been difficult, in the Pathfinder game I'm playing, because the designers really like to sneak in a ton of consumables as minor treasure (when they don't want to place a really useful item). Fortunately, magical items in Pathfinder are easily fungible, so I can just trade in a hundred +3 magical arrows for a +3 magical bow

 

[was]

Noting that magical ammunition is expended when used, I usually add an additional property when I place it as treasure. I find Flaming arrows, adding +1d6 fire damage, are pretty popular.

 

[aramis erak]

I believe the intention is for magic ammunition to be found in sets of one.

In other words, you're right about the implication. The 3e-ism of finding them in batches of 20 or 50 is long gone, and you need to recalibrate yourself and your players accordingly.

And no, I don't see +1 arrows as "worthless 95% of the time". That's an horribly pessimistic view of a plus bonus. Plus bonuses have always been some of the most coveted rewards of the game, especially so in 5E where they are so (comparatively) scarce.

If I would roll for magic ammo, I would probably roll 1d6 as the number of arrows the monster has left after the combat. (Yes, this means that if the adventurers are smart about taking out a monster before it can start using its bow, I'd give them the full six arrows)

Mathematically, their worth is dependent upon damage die modification and Natural Roll needed.

It's worth explicating this for those who want an idea of the overall improvement...

The raw improvement in average damage by raw TN needed, assuming no resistance. Resistance adds considerably more. If there's resistance, a high level fighter might need only a 2+ to hit a low-CR but resistant target, and then that +1 weapon is a huge improvement in average damage.

A typical case: Tier 1 fighter, +5 to hit, +3 damage, 1d8 weapon, average damage thus 7.5

Target 1: AC 13, non resistant.
Needs natural 8+, for a 65% chance of hit (CoH), and an average Damage per Hit (DPH) of 7.5, for an average damage per attack (DPA) of 4.875.
+1 weapon is 7+, 70% CoH, DPH=8.5, DPA=5.95; improvement is 22%.

Target 2: AC 13, resistant to slash
Needs 8+, 65% CoH, but DPH is much lower... DPH= 3.5 =(2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5)/8. DPA thus 2.275 (= 0.65 * 3.5)
The +1 weapon is still 70% CoH, DPH = 8.5, DPA = 5.95, improvement 161% (=(5.95/2.275)-1)

Target 3: Another fighter... AC 20. (Chain, shield, defensive style)
Needs nat 15+ to hit, CoH=0.25, DPH=7.5, DPA = 1.875
+1 needs 14+, CoH 0.3, DPH=8.5, DPA= 2.55, improvement = 36%

Target 4: same fighter, but the enemy warlock's made him resistant...
Non-magic CoH=25%, DPH again 3.5, DPA=0.875 (that's quite a drop)
+1 still 14+, CoH=30%, DPH=8.5, DPA=2.55, a 191% improvement in average damage per attack.

Ain't pretty, but it shows the principles, and just how freaking valuable that +1 sword is. 20% to 40% range vs normal targets, and 150% to 250% vs resistant ones.
(Note also: A +0 sword is a 0% improvement if the target isn't resistant, but it's +100% vs resistant targets)...

 

[Parslip]

I think Aramis hits the nail on the head. Magic ammo is best used for overcoming damage resistance when you don't have a magic weapon.

I do have an issue with ammo coming in stacks of 1. According to the DMG, one-use items cost half as much as a permanent item. A single arrow costs 250 gp and takes 10 days to craft. Since magic arrows don't (usually) rain from the sky, someone has to have actually made them. I can't think of a single real-world example where people would buy a single use of something they need regularly, at half the cost of a lifetime supply. Why would an NPC do this? Perhaps if they were incredibly desperate, but then arrows would be exceedingly rare, unless incredible desperation is the norm.

Which of you have crafted magic items in your games? How many of you would opt to make x2 +1 arrows over a +1 bow? If you didn't have the resources for a +1 bow, which of you would instead make a a single +1 arrow? I don't think many of you would (I never would), and I believe that playing realistic NPCs, they wouldn't either--therefore, +1 arrows would rarely if ever be made.

In order for this to make any sense, I rule in my game that magic arrows come in stacks of 20, just like mundane arrows. This makes it reasonable for people to use magic arrows in conjunction with magic bows for additional bonuses. You can get a +1 bow and 360 +1 arrows for the cost of a single +2 bow, and a +2 bow and 3600 +1 arrows for the cost of a single +3 bow. Using those numbers, it starts to make a little more economic sense for item manufacturers to opt for arrows over bows, since it becomes cheaper and less labor intensive to obtain the same bonus (+2 or +3); at least until you've hit a target 360 and 3600 times, respectively.

It also allows ranged folk to potentially keep up with the strength based melee characters wearing belts of giant strength. A ranged character with a 20 dex , a +3 bow and bracers of archery gains a +8 to hit and +10 damage. A melee character with a +3 sword and a Belt of Storm Giant Strength gains a +12 to hit and +12 to damage. Magic arrows allow the archer to go up to +11 to hit and +13 to damage; this boost is temporary, but a hell of a lot cheaper than a Belt of Storm Giant Strength!

Regardless of how rare magic items are in your game, it is always going to be extremely inefficient to craft a single piece of ammo at half the cost of a single, permanent weapon. If magic is very rare in your game, it might make sense to have only a few pieces of ammo drop, but I believe individual arrows should be valued at a small fraction of the value of a permanent item.

 

[CapnZapp]

I feel most approaches are better than using the crafting rules as a starting point.

 

[georbit]

I think Aramis hits the nail on the head. Magic ammo is best used for overcoming damage resistance when you don't have a magic weapon.

I do have an issue with ammo coming in stacks of 1. According to the DMG, one-use items cost half as much as a permanent item. A single arrow costs 250 gp and takes 10 days to craft. Since magic arrows don't (usually) rain from the sky, someone has to have actually made them. I can't think of a single real-world example where people would buy a single use of something they need regularly, at half the cost of a lifetime supply. Why would an NPC do this? Perhaps if they were incredibly desperate, but then arrows would be exceedingly rare, unless incredible desperation is the norm.

Which of you have crafted magic items in your games? How many of you would opt to make x2 +1 arrows over a +1 bow? If you didn't have the resources for a +1 bow, which of you would instead make a a single +1 arrow? I don't think many of you would (I never would), and I believe that playing realistic NPCs, they wouldn't either--therefore, +1 arrows would rarely if ever be made.

In order for this to make any sense, I rule in my game that magic arrows come in stacks of 20, just like mundane arrows. This makes it reasonable for people to use magic arrows in conjunction with magic bows for additional bonuses. You can get a +1 bow and 360 +1 arrows for the cost of a single +2 bow, and a +2 bow and 3600 +1 arrows for the cost of a single +3 bow. Using those numbers, it starts to make a little more economic sense for item manufacturers to opt for arrows over bows, since it becomes cheaper and less labor intensive to obtain the same bonus (+2 or +3); at least until you've hit a target 360 and 3600 times, respectively.

It also allows ranged folk to potentially keep up with the strength based melee characters wearing belts of giant strength. A ranged character with a 20 dex , a +3 bow and bracers of archery gains a +8 to hit and +10 damage. A melee character with a +3 sword and a Belt of Storm Giant Strength gains a +12 to hit and +12 to damage. Magic arrows allow the archer to go up to +11 to hit and +13 to damage; this boost is temporary, but a hell of a lot cheaper than a Belt of Storm Giant Strength!

Regardless of how rare magic items are in your game, it is always going to be extremely inefficient to craft a single piece of ammo at half the cost of a single, permanent weapon. If magic is very rare in your game, it might make sense to have only a few pieces of ammo drop, but I believe individual arrows should be valued at a small fraction of the value of a permanent item.

The idea of consumables indicates to me anything that is expended if used once is a consumable, which any magic arrow is if you consider that even missing with an arrow you still hit some target. I looked at the phrasing of the DMG magic ammunition and it doesn't specifically state that it is just one arrow, it doesn't specifically state it isn't either, like some things in this game it's vague. The PHB clearly sells arrows as bundles of 20, not as a single item.

So I plan on ruling that if someone wanted to create +1 magic ammunition, you create the bundle that you find in the PHB for the cost of 250 gp. Yes... that means you get more magic blowgun needles, but with 1 damage, giving a +1 doesn't seem so broken.

 

[Wik]

Okay, a few things:

1. The real advantage of +1 arrows from a player's perspective is that they're going to be more likely to hit (a +1 is a +1), and will overcome a lot of damage resistances out there. The +1 to damage isn't really all that big.
2. The advantage from a GM's standpoint is you can give them out as minor treasure without worrying about greatly unbalancing your game. It's why they show up all the frickin' time in Dungeon modules.
3. Selling magic arrows sucks, in any edition. I generally just ask players not to do it.
4. What's this about their being useless 95% of the time? Because, um, no. Basically, it works like this: you hesitate over whether to use it. If you hit, you feel vindicated, and if you miss, you grumble. Sure, you'll only turn a miss into a hit 5% of the time, but that's not what magic arrows are about... they're about the extra damage as well. And that's NOT negligeable, like, ever.
5. Magic arrows with rider effects? Yes, please. I like this idea. Consider it stolen.