Magic Items available for purchace?

[Adimus]

This is my one hangups about 3.5 and PF is the 'unmagicalization' of magical items. You shouldn't be able to just walk into the neighborhood walmart and pull it off the shelf...

I might be miffed just because it made me miss a great roleplaying opportunity. Who would want to get rid of an item that allows you to fly. Surely not a merchant who needs to travel great distances while avoiding the dangers of the road. Is there something wrong with it? Was it stolen? Is it cursed to drop its users to their death at random?

I use the controlled magic thing as a happy medium too. Just remind him of everyday law if he argues. Civilians can't buy white noise generators or unmanned stealth drones the same way you can't buy illusion magic or items for subterfuge or assassination. You can't buy a flaming burst keen greatsword the same way you can't buy a rocket launcher. Other items may be for the privileged and may even come with extra baggage. "Oh, you want that potion of cure serious? That's for the clergy and faithful parishioners. Don't wanna join? Well, we may accept a contribution to the church (market price) as long we can be sure it is in worthy hands. Your acceptance of this Geas that you will not break the commandments of our goddess ought to earn our trust."

Sorry for the long post, I just don't like whatever type of game that player came from.

 

[Omegaxicor]

[MENTION=98940]Adimus[/MENTION], I agree with you there...

Sadly, this is an "outdated" notion which more than one version of D&D has made functionally untrue - and 3.5 would be one of those versions. Heck, it was functionally untrue in 1E AD&D because there was information contained therein which was practical information needed by players on a regular basis (saving throws, changes/additions to spell functions, character creation data, etc.)

While you and I would agree that by and large the DMG is strictly the purview of the DM and in particular that the sale and distribution of magic items is the strict purview of the DM, the practical teachings of 3E was that magic items were commodites for sale just as food, weapons, and equipment. What your character wanted and could afford he was allowed to simply BUY for listed costs.

It is not at all surprising that a DM and his veteran players would never make such a mistake, but it IS the obligation of the DM to inform new players how to handle this sort of thing.

Give the player a commendation for original thinking in changing the conditions of the test - but refund his characters money and POLITELY tell him, no, that isn't how we do things here.

I am curious what information in the DMG is for players? (I understand that some of the information may be used by them but it leads to situations like this)

and I don't think he should receive a commendation he should be kicked out as an example to other cadets

EDIT: I misread your post sorry, I haven't played 3E so I don't know much about it but I still think that there is no information in the DMG that players need to know...

 

[LiL KiNG]

While I can see where you as the DM are in a 'wft' situation when he uses the ring to bypass the chasm, it is hardly game-breaking for him to have it.
As other people have said, I agree with letting him keep the ring this time, explain to him better how magic items and acquisition of said items works in your world, and move on. Every gaming table/DM is a little different and sometimes you just don't think about things being different than you are used to; my first thought on this is what if he had been a race with natural flight abilities? An outsider with the feat for wings, a dragonborn with the flight aspect, fey templates, etc. - though you may control allowable races more strictly than our table does.
However there are still so many ways to achieve flight, if even briefly, through spells or magical items that this is hardly a wise use of his money anyway, IMO. Again, you like to control all of that, but not really a big issue in the long run.
As a DM you'll have to face the challenges of characters gaining flight eventually. I've had to deal with a pally with a dragonkin mount, 3 half-fey characters, and casters with teleport (big cliff with hard climb DC's meant nothing when you can teleport to the top...), etc.
Some of the ways I've dealt with flight is that there is always something bigger in the sky above you - a flying human looks like a tasty treat to a chimera out hunting for food, or whatever other predatory animal of your choosing there may be, and if he's the only one in the air he may well be in trouble. Traveling through woods with a thick canopy can mean those who want to fly are separated from their ground-bound companions, and of course dungeons with low ceilings always work wonders.

 

[Adimus]

While I can see where you as the DM are in a 'wft' situation when he uses the ring to bypass the chasm, it is hardly game-breaking for him to have it.

At low-levels magical items that effect movement have always been the last thing you want them to have, because you have what, until level 3 with levitate or 5 with fly to use gravity to give them a challenge. No not game-breaking per se, just annoying to plan a dungeon scenario only to have it dashed.

[MENTION=98940]Adimus[/MENTION], I agree with you there...



I am curious what information in the DMG is for players? (I understand that some of the information may be used by them but it leads to situations like this)

and I don't think he should receive a commendation he should be kicked out as an example to other cadets

EDIT: I misread your post sorry, I haven't played 3E so I don't know much about it but I still think that there is no information in the DMG that players need to know...

Right On! The answer to your question is none my friend! Unless you're playing 4e, which has it in the PHB... But that's a whole other rant with its Trogdor dragon-men 'unmagicalizing' the dragons and burninating countrysides and such.

 

[Derren]

This is my one hangups about 3.5 and PF is the 'unmagicalization' of magical items. You shouldn't be able to just walk into the neighborhood walmart and pull it off the shelf...

Why not?
In a high magical world where people can make magical weapons & items they will also sell them. That is just common sense.

Civilians can't buy white noise generators or unmanned stealth drones the same way you can't buy illusion magic or items for subterfuge or assassination. You can't buy a flaming burst keen greatsword the same way you can't buy a rocket launcher.

I just googled and found several jammers and drones (mostly copters but also a plane) for sale. And I am just Joe Average and don't have any connections at all.
Someone who does, for example he works or worked for a PMC, can certainly get his hands on better stuff.
As for the rocket launcher, do you watch the news? Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Those things are pretty much default equipment for insurgents.

Sure, "we" can't get into a shop and buy them, but in a D&D world "we" wouldn't be adventurers either.
The notion that magical items can never be bought even when magic and the ability to craft magical items are widespread is simply silly.

 

[Omegaxicor]

Why not?
In a high magical world where people can make magical weapons & items they will also sell them. That is just common sense.


I just googled and found several jammers and drones (mostly copters but also a plane) for sale. And I am just Joe Average and don't have any connections at all.
Someone who does, for example he works or worked for a PMC, can certainly get his hands on better stuff.
As for the rocket launcher, do you watch the news? Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Those things are pretty much default equipment for insurgents.

Sure, "we" can't get into a shop and buy them, but in a D&D world "we" wouldn't be adventurers either.
The notion that magical items can never be bought even when magic and the ability to craft magical items are widespread is simply silly.

I can't say for certain because I don't know but didn't those insurgents get them from enemy combatants, the same way most magic items would be picked up. I doubt they could buy all of the weapons in the corner shop...

 

[Adimus]

Why not?
In a high magical world where people can make magical weapons & items they will also sell them. That is just common sense.


I just googled and found several jammers and drones (mostly copters but also a plane) for sale. And I am just Joe Average and don't have any connections at all.
Someone who does, for example he works or worked for a PMC, can certainly get his hands on better stuff.
As for the rocket launcher, do you watch the news? Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Those things are pretty much default equipment for insurgents.

Sure, "we" can't get into a shop and buy them, but in a D&D world "we" wouldn't be adventurers either.
The notion that magical items can never be bought even when magic and the ability to craft magical items are widespread is simply silly.

I too have access to Google! i was talking about military grade reconnaissance equipment, which is not available to the general civilian public. And yes, guerrilla insurgents have access to rocket launchers, but you can't order one out of cabela's seasonal.
Point: I didn't say you couldn't purchase one, just that there may be 'strings attached' and that they were not readily available.
And yes, in a high magic campaign that may be acceptable, but on the 'default setting', that is, the standard set by the fantasy literature from which dungeons and dragons gets its archetypes, a fireball wand bargain bin is slightly over-the-top (though with each edition I can see an incline toward that).
If magic's not magical, then why call it magic? call it science. If you could make the wands of fireball hand grenades and rings of flight rocket packs and see no difference to the way players respond to them then the 'magic' is gone.

 

[Derren]

I can't say for certain because I don't know but didn't those insurgents get them from enemy combatants, the same way most magic items would be picked up. I doubt they could buy all of the weapons in the corner shop...

In Somalia it might even be a corner shop.
Just inform yourself a bit about people like Viktor Bout, maybe reading one of the books about him or the movie inspired by him, Lord of War.
Weapon trade is big today, and also back in the medieval world. The masterwork stuff was reserved for nobility, but the more common stuff, and that will include more common magical items, was available to the public, including mercenaries.

I too have access to Google! i was talking about military grade reconnaissance equipment, which is not available to the general civilian public. And yes, guerrilla insurgents have access to rocket launchers, but you can't order one out of cabela's seasonal.
Point: I didn't say you couldn't purchase one, just that there may be 'strings attached' and that they were not readily available.
As yes, in a high magic campaign that may be acceptable, but on the 'default setting', that is, the standard set by the fantasy literature from which dungeons and dragons gets its archetypes, a fireball wand bargain bin is slightly over-the-top (though with each edition I can see an incline toward that).
If magic's not magical, then why call it magic? call it science. If you could make the wands of fireball hand grenades and rings of flight rocket packs and see no difference to the way players respond to them then the 'magic' is gone.

As I said, someone who works in the field can certainly get his hands on some military equipment, even as non goverment employee.
And the magic level in default D&D is already quite high and there is no real obstacle for magic item creation and thus the sale of them. And if you go into the Forgotten Realms, magic item trade is pretty much canon.

Magic in D&D has always been a science. Do X and Y happens. That is science. The only difference between nature science and magic is that magic can do stuff nature science can't (yet).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I believe in the free market- both in the RW and the fantasy world. That means, if it exists- mundane or magical- it can be sold. I live in a major metropolitan area, and when I wanted to buy a car some years ago, I considered the Audi A4- new to the American market. And where I lived, there were only 2 available- both in hideous, discontinued colors- and there was a 6 month waiting list. I passed and bought a Volvo S60.

IOW, just like the RW, just because something exists and has a market value doesn't mean it is available for sale where you are at this point in time. Or at the price listed in the books.

So in my games, as in the games of many of the guys in my group, any meaningful purchase needs the DM Seal Of Approval because everything- mundane or magical- is subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Buying a few torches doesn't matter. Buying a literal cartload would. Buying a simple weapon doesn't matter, but buying a dozen dire picks would. A single magnifying lens wouldn't, but a spyglass would. And so with magic.

Players get to use their gold on things they REALLY want, I control (somewhat) the amount of firepower they can buy.

 

[Adimus]

In Somalia it might even be a corner shop.
Just inform yourself a bit about people like Viktor Bout, maybe reading one of the books about him or the movie inspired by him, Lord of War.
Weapon trade is big today, and also back in the medieval world. The masterwork stuff was reserved for nobility, but the more common stuff, and that will include more common magical items, was available to the public, including mercenaries.



As I said, someone who works in the field can certainly get his hands on some military equipment, even as non goverment employee.
And the magic level in default D&D is already quite high and there is no real obstacle for magic item creation and thus the sale of them. And if you go into the Forgotten Realms, magic item trade is pretty much canon.

Magic in D&D has always been a science. Do X and Y happens. That is science. The only difference between nature science and magic is that magic can do stuff nature science can't (yet).

If you want to do the 'adventurers on the fringe' or 'ex-soldier with contacts' angle that's a good way to go about it. Like I said, role-playing opportunities. As long as it provokes a response and makes the game better anything goes. I just hate "pick something out of the book, its yours." humdrum kind of feel that making all of them available feels. And this not only helps the game but gives you a manner of control.

I always picture magic as a well-guarded esoteric practice that took a life-time to learn, and was privy only to those special few with the patience and intelligence to unlock its mysteries.

I'm not saying you couldn't do high magic and have it turn out well by any stretch. I just don't like the industrial scale mass manufacture ideas some gamers have. I mean, Harry Potter did high magic very well, but the minutia was well thought out. Spells that killed people, subverted their will, or were designed merely to cause pain and suffering were outlawed and taboo. As long a well thought out system was implemented that made sense it might be great to play.