Marking with the Aid Another "attack"

[noodle fish mice]

According to the PHB, on page 287:

"AID ANOTHER: STANDARD ACTION
Attack Roll: Choose a target within your melee reach and make a melee basic attack vs. AC 10. If you succeed, deal no damage, but choose one ally. That ally gets a +2 bonus to his or her next attack roll..."

So, can a fighter with Combat Challenge who's using Aid Another mark the target of that "attack"? I assume he can, and I'll probably allow it regardless, but I'm curious to know whether it's technically allowed.

 

[sfedi]

I was wondering the same thing, I think he marks.

To reality and balance check, note that all other defenders could mark a target and still do an Aid Another, so no extra benefit there.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Ayup, it is described as a Melee Basic Attack, even though no power is used it still has to count as an attack. Fighters will mark.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'm going to be difficult and say "no."

Notice that the description does not say that you hit the target when you roll against AC 10. It says choose the target, roll against AC 10, and if you succeed, your ally gains a bonus against said target.

But the attack itself is not against the target, and does not represent a hit on said target. (In effect, you're rolling to distract the target and make it easier to hit.)

 

[Nebten]

But you don't have to hit the target for it to be marked, just attack it.

I would allow it, but then I would pull the fighter's man-card while pointing and laughing at him.

 

[Mouseferatu]

But you don't have to hit the target for it to be marked, just attack it.

Yes, but my point is that you're not attacking the target. You're targeting a hypothetical AC 10 to aid someone else in attacking the target. If you were attacking the target, you'd have to roll against one of the target's defenses.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

Though I realize it's dangerous to be on the other side of an argument from Mouseferatu, I have to disagree. There are plenty of powers that target squares but hit creatures. If you're an artificer, sometimes you target an ally and then hit an enemy. I don't think the AC 10 makes a difference here mechanically.

As to the flavor, the Fighter's mark is his ability to get up in an opponent's face and mess with his ability to hit. It makes sense to me that a Fighter (who blows a standard action and deals no damage, mind you!) harrying an enemy to (effectively) lower his defenses should also hinder his attack as well.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It makes sense to me that a Fighter (who blows a standard action and deals no damage, mind you!) harrying an enemy to (effectively) lower his defenses should also hinder his attack as well.

Oh, I don't have a problem with it on that score, nor do I think it's unbalanced. When DMing, I'd probably allow it myself. I just don't think the RAW support it.

 

[noodle fish mice]

Like I said, I'm inclined to allow it, after seeing the delighted look on my fighter's face when he considered the idea of marking a target while also giving the rogue he was flanking it with a bonus to hit that stacked with their combat advantage. I just can't say no to those puppy dog eyes.

That said, I honestly can't figure out what the actual answer is. This is one of those obnoxious discussions where two people can disagree but neither of them seems wrong.

 

[sfedi]

Mmm, let's see:
- it's an attack
- it has a target
- whether it hit or not, if it uses the target's defenses or not, it doesn't matter because:

The Fighter marks if he attacks a target. That's it.

And it seems there's no doubt that Aid Another is an attack, against a target.

Does it make sesne to you (Mouseferatu)?
(I'm also arguing just for fun )